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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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"This is not the film Jane hoped for which is also what I hoped for. . . It's a rated "R" movie for kids, not a rated "R" movie for adults."

 

Tim Bradstreet, you have brought balance to the force.

 

Thank You for being honest my brother.

 

-TL

 

Well, "kids" isn't entirely accurate. I mean young adults, but yeah, kids too.

It's a delicate thing to try and generalize.

 

Another way of saying it is - It seems like a movie constructed for a certain target audience rather than a wide one.

I'm sure some older generation peeps are going to like it too. But on our Pumpkin Pie chart, I'd venture to say that it will appeal mostly to the 14-30 crowd, with the slices getting smaller as we pass the ages of 21-25.

What I hoped and prayed for was something that looks near to what we have. Surface-wise it looks like a Punisher film with all the heavy blacks and dynamic lighting (which I hope gets toned down a bit in spots ;)

Going for ultra violence is OK too but I've always said that implying that violence is way more effective then showing it.

You set it up, you show a little graphic brutality in spots and then you can back off it. Look at Alien . . . There is nothing too awfully brutal about it, and when you do get it it's in quick flashes. You fill in the rest yourself and it works so fucking well. Someone mentioned SAW, I never imagined the Punisher would have to compete against torture porn to satisfy an audience. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to imply this stuff won't work in the movie. I'm just a little shellshocked (not repulsed) by the violence clip. I'm probably reading a bit too much into it too. Perhaps in the context of the film it may even out.

 

But the point is, yes, this is not the next chapter I'd hoped for based on what we've seen.

Rarely are our hopes and expectations met.

We've talked ad nauseam earlier in this thread about what we hoped the next chapter would be.

Take out Ray, take out look, we're talking about story.

 

This is something else. It's rooted in Max but will it deliver?

We'll find out in 5 months.

 

- TB

 

 

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Benioff's a genius. The Kite Runner was fucking amazing. 4 stars.

 

THAT guy woulda written a SERIOUS Punisher movie, and I know the first thing he woulda done is thrown the comics OUT THE WINDOW.

 

I think that was the biggest mistake on whoever the fuck is responsible for Warzone's script.

 

To accentuate the gore because its from the pages of MAX.

 

I love "B" movies (which is why I'll watch this) but that mentality is what killed this.

 

A body count of 100+ is what killed this.

 

Lexi's a trooper for making it a period piece.

 

I mean, what else was she supposed to do?

 

-TL

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A shotgun blast to the face is always cool to see, but I'll always take a scene like the one from the last movie where Glass is torturing Dave. That made me pretty uncomfortable, and you know it wasn't graphic either.

 

Same goes for a scene in these two movies; Ichi the Killer and Oldboy. Both have a seen where a tongue is being cut, Ichi one is graphic shows it, Oldboy's doesn't, which is why it is more effective.

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And Street, we stole copies of "Aliens" as kids and "Predator", not "Taxi Driver". Love the film, but not what I wanted as a kid. Maybe a generation gap? :P

 

Heh, yeah, I stole Taxi Driver and snuck into Excalibur and The Howling.

When I saw First Blood I was 16 and walked right in ;)

I was old enough to get into Aliens and Predator by the time they came out.

But you do see what I'm saying :P

 

- TB

 

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"Perhaps in the context of the film it may even out."

 

Street, are you SHITTING me???

 

You GOTTA be kiddin me.

 

-Chair through the face.

 

-Fist through the face.

 

-Fat guy's head exploding.

 

-Hutchison eating entrails.

 

-Pittsy's head exploding.

 

-Jigsaw is like Jackie Mason's corpse.

 

I'm just glad you followed that up with this:

 

"This is not the next chapter I'd hoped for based on what we've seen."

 

People have been SHITTING on Hensleigh's film for over a year by supporting an 80s "B" movie.

 

Purists.

 

(Fist tightens).

 

-TL

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Benioff's a genius. The Kite Runner was fucking amazing. 4 stars.

 

THAT guy woulda written a SERIOUS Punisher movie, and I know the first thing he woulda done is thrown the comics OUT THE WINDOW.

 

-TL

 

But the question is . . Would the studios have allowed him to?

I don't think so since that was the sticking point for Jane from day one.

Rewrite after rewrite it was not being addressed. It was just the same thing in a different package.

When Stuart Beatty came in I had hope that he would find the perfect medium to please Jane AND the studio.

But the offer he couldn't refuse makes that moot.

 

- TB

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"Perhaps in the context of the film it may even out."

 

Street, are you SHITTING me???

 

You GOTTA be kiddin me.

 

-Chair through the face.

 

-Fist through the face.

 

-Fat guy's head exploding.

 

-Hutchison eating entrails.

 

-Pittsy's head exploding.

 

-Jigsaw is like Jackie Mason's corpse.

 

I'm just glad you followed that up with this:

 

"This is not the next chapter I'd hoped for based on what we've seen."

 

People have been SHITTING on Hensleigh's film for over a year by supporting an 80s "B" movie.

 

Purists.

 

(Fist tightens).

 

-TL

 

Heheh, you misunderstand, or maybe I wasn't making myself clear, either way, what I mean is that it's very possible that some of this may not survive the editing process or ratings board. We're seeing clips showing everything (at least I assume it's everything). The film is being re-edited as we speak.

So it stands to reason that not all of it will survive. Even in the Rambo red band trailer it seemed to me that stuff was cut later. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

You see a head come apart from beginning to end in the violence clip but it's very likely that they could go with a sound effect in place of the shot, or a quicker flash of the violence then what we have seen. It's all still in a malleable state. Final cut will tell us for sure - That's what I meant.

 

- TB

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Oh shit, my mistake it was Beatty not Benioff, where the fuck did I get his name from? Still he would have been a good choice for writer.

 

Heheh, you misunderstand, or maybe I wasn't making myself clear, either way, what I mean is that it's very possible that some of this may not survive the editing process or ratings board. We're seeing clips showing everything (at least I assume it's everything). The film is being re-edited as we speak.

So it stands to reason that not all of it will survive. Even in the Rambo red band trailer it seemed to me that stuff was cut later. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

You see a head come apart from beginning to end in the violence clip but it's very likely that they could go with a sound effect in place of the shot, or a quicker flash of the violence then what we have seen. It's all still in a malleable state. Final cut will tell us for sure - That's what I meant.

 

- TB

 

Regardless all the wet stuff will be on the DVD anyway. Or even the ratings board may just see it so over the top and cartoonish that they'll let it pass.

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Guest FADoss

So TL, did it just take a Jane post to undo all the effect Steve had on you? Are you going back to the hater crowd?

 

I'm also assuming you've SEEN the movie since you criticize it for not being serious...

 

And again...this is a film based on a COMIC BOOK! It's not exactly supposed to be classic cinema. I mean, I loved "Iron Man" because it was fun...and I think THIS film will be fun in the same way.

 

Fred

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Just because it's a comic book shouldn't mean shit. A History of Violence was based on a comic book and that had two Oscar nominations. It was serious, well acted, directed and written.

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from War Zone, it's just that your reasoning is kinda bullshit.

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Guest FADoss

I don't recall anyone in History of Violence ever being in multiple issues of SPIDER MAN and wearing SPANDEX. So much for "bullshit reasoning" Mike. There is a hell of a lot more to Punisher than his recent incarnation.

 

You wouldn't know HoV was made from a comic unless you...well...knew it was made from a comic.

 

Fred

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http://lexialexander.com/

 

I think you have to read between the lines on this post. It basically confirms what the rumors started.

 

On a separate note, I have to agree with some posters. Less is usually better. I want to see brutal violence in this movie, but not so much that it ruins the movie. I would like David Cronenberg- like violence in a punisher movie. Very fast and shocking, but not too much, like a history of violence. I also want to commend Jane for wishing Ray luck with the character. That's very cool. I'm done rambling now.

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And again...this is a film based on a COMIC BOOK! It's not exactly supposed to be classic cinema. I mean, I loved "Iron Man" because it was fun...and I think THIS film will be fun in the same way.

 

Fred

 

I guess it seems like the point TL is making and the point I'm making is that something like Iron Man is ripe for the treatment it's getting.

It makes sense. The Punisher on the other hand, especially Punisher Max may be a bit over the top at times but at it's core is a ticking time bomb, a human story of loss, punishment (revenge), and war. These seem like more mature themes that would play to a wider audience than just the younger folk.

Especially when you consider that we're talking vigilant VS a guy who flies around in a metal suit shooting repulser rays out of his palms.

The Punisher is one of the few Marvel characters that has evolved out of the realm of "superhero", or "supervillain", and has become a more realistic character (minus the fact he's doesn't get caught too often).

 

If this was white gloves and boots Punisher or Punisher incarnations of the past, or even Punisher War Journal then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Punisher Max stars a guy in his 50's by the way. How many action films for younger dudes are there around that feature an older protagonist?

And of those, how many are geared toward a younger audience? Sure, Ray is not 50, but neither is he 30, and the Max character is older/wiser.

 

Age aside, how can you even compare a comic character like Iron Man or Spiderman to the Punisher? You (the royal "you") can't.

That's why Marvel itself separated the Garth Ennis Punisher from most of the rest of the Marvel Universe by making it the flagship Max book.

 

If you want a popcorn movie then we have plenty, sometimes they are even really goddamn good.

It seems like that is what this is, except for throwing R rated, or even X rated violence into it.

But Punisher is the chance to do that other thing, make a film, not a movie.

This appears to be a movie aimed at kids, the comic book/video game crowd.

Is that wrong? Who's to fucking say.

I just wish it could have been elevated by substance and story.

Make Road To Perdition, not Fantastic 4, Iron Man, or Spiderman.

And with the Punisher center stage, I'd bet my right arm that a film done as well as Perdition would make filmgoers, video game nuts, and comic book readers alike shit their pants with satisfaction. I guess you can say I'm biased. I want a film geared towards me ;)

 

- TB

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I don't recall anyone in History of Violence ever being in multiple issues of SPIDER MAN and wearing SPANDEX. So much for "bullshit reasoning" Mike. There is a hell of a lot more to Punisher than his recent incarnation.

 

You wouldn't know HoV was made from a comic unless you...well...knew it was made from a comic.

 

Fred

 

Still doesn't mean you can't elevate the material. Just because he did ridiculous shit in the comic in the past, the film has to be ridiculous? That's how I'm reading what you're saying.

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Guest FADoss

My take on the Punisher is this...if you focus only on the "guy who's family was wrongfully killed so he goes on a vengeance spree" it's not really The Punisher. If you take the OTHER half of it, which is "guy who also happens to be a normal human who picks up guns and goes toe to toe with supervillians and holds his own along side Spiderman" THEN you have an interesting...ORIGINAL story.

 

Quit hoping for a Deathwish sequel and start looking for a Punisher film.

 

I think some of the modern stories have ignored the roots (outside WJ). Punisher as "just another vigilante" is not all that cool to me.

 

I'm not condoning a movie that is straight up goofy shit, but the argument that it SHOULD NOT BE A COMIC BOOK FILM is just dumb. Go to the Death Wish remake thread for that crap. This here is THE PUNISHER.

 

And Mike...Ray sounds like another guy I know...

 

Fred

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With all this bs happening with the movie, I feel bad for Ray. He seems very committed to the character, but I think he will be screwed over with the whole thing just like Jane. Maybe they can team up in some project and kick the asses of the people responsible. I'd pay money to see that :lol:

 

Dude, Jane and Stevenson kicking ass together would be a dream come true.

- TB

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