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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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That was not in the script we shot. There is, however, lots of killing....lots!

sg,asc

 

That is very good to hear, when I read that I went what the fuck!?

 

That's one problem I had with the movie down, quite a few more to go though.

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I'm hoping Frank Castle won't be unethically used in Warzone.

 

And by that I mean - he better be as unethical a person as ever towards his prey in the film.

 

-TL

 

*I loved seeing Jane stab the blonde dude in the throat after dislocating his arm and nailing it to his ass.

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Since all the action seems to have moved over here, I'll emigrate too, despite being a tad pushed for time.

 

You know, I never understood how you GPA guys (and this goes for some of the IMDB crowd as well) could embrace Ray Stevenson so quickly.

 

I mean I can appreciate a positive outlook towards a MAX inspired Punisher film (despite the drama surrounding it) but I am fuckin POSITIVE most of you were not familiar with ROME.

 

I'm the kinda guy that needs to be impressed in order for me to give someone my approval. Specially in this case.

 

I know what you mean, I'm like that do.

I embraced Ray Stevenson even quicker that I did Jane, but for the same basic reason.

Short version: I saw the potential there, just like I did with Jane.

 

Long version: Way back in 2003, when Jane was announced, my initial reaction was "who? Oh, that guy from "Nemesis"" (guilty pleasure, alongside many other nineties sci-fi B-movies).

I was hardly thrilled right off the bat, but decided to make it my business as a hardcore HARDCORE Punisher fan to check the guy out more to form an informed opinion about his casting.

So I traced and rented "Thursday" - Okay, this could work.

Then "Stander" - Fine, this guy can pull it off, no doubt about it.

 

Based upon those two movies, approx 3 hours of footage, I saw the potential in Jane, and knew he had what it takes to be a Punisher. While not my first choice, but he would certainly do the role justice after some bulking up and dying of hair.

 

From then on out, I became a defender of Thomas Jane as the Punisher, one of the few on the imdb against the hordes of anti-Jane crew, which were the vast majority back then.

Hensleigh, I was not too sure about, but gave him the benefit of the doubt and supported him too. (Which in retrospect was a mistake)

 

I consider the 2004 movie to be deeply flawed, which should be very clear from my posts both on the imdb and GPA. It had lots of problems, but Jane was not among them. He was excellent, as I always point out when discussing the 2004 movie for better or worse.

 

When Jane left, I was bummed out. Big time. I was moping for weeks, and I wished nothing but doom, gloom and financial crisis over LGF for not being able to make one fucking Punisher sequel in the same time frame as they churned out three Saw sequels. I had zero faith in the sequel back then in the spring of 2007, and was more than ready to throw in the towel and give a damn about what happened to the franchise.

 

Then the Lexi Alexander rumour surfaced. I immediately knew who she was; "Green street" blew me away when I first saw it two years before, and was sitting on my DVD shelf right there and then.

Maybe there was hope yet?

 

Then Ray Stevenson was announced. My reaction was the same as with Jane four years earlier, "Who?" Only I had no clue who he was period, given that I at the time had yet to see Rome, and he was not in any of those guilty pleasure sci-fi flicks. But when I told my friends that Titus Pullo was the Punisher, they all seemed enthusiastic and thought he would be perfect for the role. Of course I went out and bought the two seasons of Rome right away. And I was hooked. The show is one of the best I have ever seen, and Ray Stevenson; well here is the thing:

 

I saw the same potential in Ray to be The Punisher as I did in Jane four years past, only much more potent. While I could see Jane doing an admirable job (which indeed he did), he was never my phantasy cast for the part. Ray Stevenson on the other hand, was even better than said phantasy cast.

 

So the movie had a director I had faith in and an actor I considered spot on, but fat lot of good that would do if the script or general take is not up to par. As more info came out, all of my concerns were dealt with, one by one. The movie had more or less the same budget as before, it would be dark, it would be violent, the origin would be fixed, and as it turned out, the script was extensively rewritten, the only thing that remained from the Jane era was the most basic crude story, penned by Nick Santora. My hopes rose exponentially. As a fan of the Punisher as character first and foremost, "Punisher: War Zone" appears in my opinion to be the first movie to truly do the character justice, at least according to my personal principles of what constitutes a Punisher movie. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it freely. But so far, "War Zone" looks set to be the best Punisher movie yet.

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I'm fine with the cast for this movie, I think they're all good actors (well the ones I know of), as for Lexi I did not like Hooligans at all really, I'm willing to give her a shot with this even though I think Walter Hill should have directed this movie.

 

As for the script, even with the rewrites it seems to be pretty much the same. I hate how characters like Maginty and the Bulats are just wasted, in what I like to call the reverse Harry Heck. I also just hated the opening (though I'm glad to hear the 'death by lobster' scene has been cut), but if one thing could have been held over from Hensleigh script it's the opening, also a lot of the dialouge came off as cheesy and cliched.

 

Like this bit (I'm paraphrasing); Castle seems a wounded man and tells him (I'll put a spoiler here just in case)

"Don't die on me" or something along those lines. Which I think is kinda of out of character for him Castle would say something like "There's nothing I can do for you"

. But I do hope that the dialouge got a good punch up in the rewrites.

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Like this bit (I'm paraphrasing); Castle seems a wounded man and tells him (I'll put a spoiler here just in case)

"Don't die on me" or something along those lines. Which I think is kinda of out of character for him Castle would say something like "There's nothing I can do for you"

. But I do hope that the dialouge got a good punch up in the rewrites.

There, I agree with you, Mike.

Your suggestion is a Punisher line, the one in that particurlar draft of the script is not.

 

Hopefully, that line will be more Punisher-ish in the final script, assuming the scene is still there.

 

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One thing I'm noticing from alotta Punisher fans coming over from other Boards, is the lack of respect and appreciation for Jonathan Hensleigh.

 

Here's a guy that shot The Punisher like a grade "A" film and not a comic book movie (The style he chose got the GREAT Walter Hill's attention).

 

The man responsible for the EPIC Die Hard With A Vengeance which was at a quality and production level that no Punisher film will ever reach.

 

A guy that connected with his lead actor through their love and respect for true cinematic action.

 

Its sad to see Punisher purists did not take advantage of Hensleigh's presence and instead completely disregarded it.

 

I know the same thing will happen next year when X-Men Origins: Wolverine hits.

 

Jackman and Gavin Hood threw in some 70s action reminiscent of Eastwood's prime and people will probably drive past that to say how cool Ryan Reynolds looks as Deadpool.

 

This is what Hensleigh didn't think about when he got involved with the project. The studio was more concerned about fan reaction (mostly kids) and not the quality of the material.

 

With The Dark Knight, Nolan seems to be sending the young crowd to hell and going the intelligent way - which potentially got his film noticed by the A.M.P.A.S.

 

Its refreshing to hear Steve Gainer's profound respect for REAL crime dramas like Dirty Harry and Death Wish.

 

Its too bad the purists (and I'm not one of them) don't really care.

 

-TL

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There, I agree with you, Mike.

Your suggestion is a Punisher line, the one in that particurlar draft of the script is not.

 

Hopefully, that line will be more Punisher-ish in the final script, assuming the scene is still there.

 

The one line I really want cut, is the "Billy is dead...Call me Jigsaw." He gets the idea from looking at a jigsaw puzzle, that just seemed lazy, it has 'well he has to be called Jigsaw' reasoning to it.

 

I would have preferred if it became a nickname for him that he just hated, even killed people for calling him that.

 

With regards to Hensleigh, I really think some of the main problems in the movie lies with the editing, I was watching the Extended Cut and kinda realized that some subtle cuts to it would make all the difference.

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Guest FADoss

TL, you keep your "purist attitude" when it comes to 70s action films like Henseligh made. I dig it. But some of us are still looking for a PUNISHER film. I would love to see JH pull off a great 70s action flick...but no need to use the Punisher to do it.

 

Fred

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Dude, there are no "70s purists".

 

What I am doing is reminding the Punisher purists that the kinda film Hensleigh wanted to make was more than a comic book movie.

 

Purists just wanted a comic book movie.

 

70s action movie vs. comic book movie

 

Its pretty obvious which film would be superior.

 

NO self respecting individual in Hollywood can fuck with Dirty Harry, The Getaway, The Outlaw Josey Wales, etc.

 

ANY self respecting individual in Hollywood can say several comic book movies are SHIT.

 

Its like saying "What's better - A novel by John Grisham or a comic book?"

 

Hensleigh tried to make Castle a class "A" character. The same way Nolan made The Joker a potentially Academy Award Nominated character.

 

Purists think Castle is better off being a "B" character.

 

I don't, and neither does Jane.

 

-TL

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Since all the action seems to have moved over here, I'll emigrate too, despite being a tad pushed for time.

 

Welcome norse_sage.

Glad you folks came by to throw in with your thoughts.

There is lot's more here than Warzone too. Hope you stick around.

 

Cheers - TB

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Guest FADoss

Purists just think they should stick to the fucking source material. You could make a PUNISHER movie in 70s style. I'd like to see someone do it. Hensleigh missed the boat on it though.

 

Fred

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Dude, just because Hensleigh didn't hire an Italian guy in his 50s and didn't shoot the movie in NYC doesn't necessarily mean "He missed the boat" aka the movie woulda been better.

 

Source material isn't everything. Purists want Hollywood directors to use a MAX comic as a script. They fail to realize it doesn't translate that easily.

 

Imagine a 200 lb midget playing Wolverine instead of Jackman. Geeeeez.

 

Look at that fan made movie Punisher: First Round.

 

It made Wolverine sound like a fuckin idiot that said "Hey Bub." like a thousand times and Castle's monologues and narratives made me wanna hit my laptop with a hammer.

 

Anyway talkin source material - Warzone stars a British guy in his mid 40s and was shot in Montreal to double for NYC.

 

-Jigsaw is not part of MAX.

 

-Micro is not part of MAX.

 

-Detective Martin Soap is from the Welcome Back Frank and Marvel Knights series - NOT MAX.

 

-Looney Bin Jim is not even a comic book character - he was made for the screen.

 

I still don't know why you think this is gonna be better.

 

We'll know in 5 months, and if it blows you have to BUY and watch Hensleigh's Welcome To The Jungle.

 

lol

 

-TL

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COOL. You gotta try that here in Atlanta some time Steve. I'm an avid civil war buff myself (US history in general, but that area is a subject I really enjoy) and this area has loads and loads of relics in the blue ridge mountains, red top mountian, and in many of the surrounding towns and such there is a wealth of historical sites.

 

Amen! Atlanta, please!

 

Also, my two cents- I really loved the 04 Punisher and I'm just not really excited in any way about Warzone. It doesn't make me mad or anything, I just don't really care. Not sure I'll even rent it.

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Welcome norse_sage.

Glad you folks came by to throw in with your thoughts.

There is lot's more here than Warzone too. Hope you stick around.

 

Cheers - TB

Thanks for the welcome, Street (that's what everyone else seems to say, hope I don't overstep any boundaries by adopting it right away).

I'll stick around now that I'm here, maybe even go beyond the War Zone thread!

 

Since the conversation was steered toward Hensleigh...

 

As I said in my first post here, I consider the 2004 movie to be deeply flawed. This is due to a variety of causes, many of which are derived from Hensleigh's chosen take on the movie.

 

First of all; I love the seventies cinema (even more than I love sixties cinema), in my DVD collection you'll find the complete Dirty Harry collection, several Death Wish's, Leone movies, Hill & Spencer movies as well as quite a few Blake Edwards movies. All of them in the best special edition version available, and all will be upgraded to Blu-Ray as soon as they hit that format.

If Hensleigh were to make a tribute movie to the seventies style of cinema with a completely new and original story, I'd be all for it.

 

But in my opinion, the 2004 movie was not so much a Punisher movie as it was Hensleigh's tribute to the cinema of the seventies forced into the Punisher mold.

This, I do not appreciate one bit. As far as the writing is concerned, lets just say I appreciate that even less than the direction and leave it at that.

 

What I want of the makers of any given Punisher movie is not that they try to make a comic book movie, or another "Death Wish", or "Taxi Driver" or "The Shield" for that matter, but that they aim to make a movie that is uniquely PUNISHER, and use whatever style of direction and writing which is best suited to achieve just that.

 

I look more forward to War Zone than I ever did the previous movie for that reason.

I am very intrigued by Gainer's MAX inspired cinematography, and the leaked early Lexi Alexander draft of the script is also the closest to a Punisher story of all the scripts I've read for all Punisher movies.

 

As such, I am more exited about and more appreciative of what the makers of War Zone seem to be doing than what the makers of the previous movie did.

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Guest AdminGuyX

This is a small thing, but as a person who is obviously into weapons and has an understanding of firearm preference and how that can define a character . . . I'm going to miss the comped Colt 1911 45acp's that Frank Castle should be packing as The Punisher.

 

The Berettas he's packing in Warzone are good for spraying bullets, and holding many rounds, and sure he'd use them, but not as his primary sidearm. He's like Jeff Cooper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper_(colonel).

 

The sun rises and sets with the old workhorse, the colt 1911.

 

Through his publishing history it's almost always come back to the 45acp for Frank Castle.

 

In my opinion one of the things the '04 film got SO RIGHT was his comped 45's.

 

I don't see a trace of them in the warzone trailer. I will say the H&K rifles are a good choice for the posters, the old standard of the M4 works for me with the red dot scope too.

 

The small crossbow, well, I'll have to see it used in context to decide.

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Guest FADoss
Dude, just because Hensleigh didn't hire an Italian guy in his 50s and didn't shoot the movie in NYC doesn't necessarily mean "He missed the boat" aka the movie woulda been better.

 

Source material isn't everything. Purists want Hollywood directors to use a MAX comic as a script. They fail to realize it doesn't translate that easily.

 

Imagine a 200 lb midget playing Wolverine instead of Jackman. Geeeeez.

 

Look at that fan made movie Punisher: First Round.

 

It made Wolverine sound like a fuckin idiot that said "Hey Bub." like a thousand times and Castle's monologues and narratives made me wanna hit my laptop with a hammer.

 

Anyway talkin source material - Warzone stars a British guy in his mid 40s and was shot in Montreal to double for NYC.

 

-Jigsaw is not part of MAX.

 

-Micro is not part of MAX.

 

-Detective Martin Soap is from the Welcome Back Frank and Marvel Knights series - NOT MAX.

 

-Looney Bin Jim is not even a comic book character - he was made for the screen.

 

I still don't know why you think this is gonna be better.

 

We'll know in 5 months, and if it blows you have to BUY and watch Hensleigh's Welcome To The Jungle.

 

lol

 

-TL

 

DEAL. I'll place it right next to my copy of the 2004 Punisher flick (which I have seen multiple times).

 

And you know a Punisher/Wolverine comic short would be hysterical...

 

 

Fred

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Guest FADoss
2118807509_d1722d343f.jpg

 

LOOK WHAT I FOUND...Noeland should love this shit...

 

"I work in the R&D lab at Knights Armament in Titusville Florida.

 

We just recently had the opportunity (if you want to call it that) to make a “movie gun” for the sequel of the movie “The Punisher”.

 

We were brought a brand new in the box S&W Performance Center Lew Horton Model 500 Revolver, SKU: 170246.

 

We were told to take it apart and make a new barrel shroud with upper and lower rails that would accept a laser/flashlight combo that attaches to the lower and a scope that will attach to the upper rail.

 

There is a fake suppressor that attaches to the end of the barrel and holds everything together.

 

We didn’t have the proper tools to disassemble a S&W 500. No frame wrench, no frame wench inserts, no internal barrel wrench, nothing for a model 500. We said that we’d ruin it. We were assured that this revolver would never be used to fire a live round of any kind and that it was a “Movie Gun” and they didn’t care how we did it.

 

After drooling over it for a day or so the compensator (with the rest of the revolver attached) was chucked up in a six jaw Buck chuck in a Hardinge lathe. The spindle was locked and with (what felt like) about six to eight pounds of torque the compensator unscrewed from the barrel. (it’s left hand thread). The shroud slid off and the barrel simply unscrewed from the frame. The frame has two lugs that align the shroud so it can’t be installed incorrectly.

 

The barrel itself was beautiful. Its threaded on both ends and undercut in the center. The barrel looked to be button rifled because the finish was beautiful.

Lothar-Walther etched right on the side.

 

You can say what you want about two piece barrels but the ends are square and you don’t have to draw file the cylinder to barrel gap.

 

We drew up the new shroud and it was wire cut on the EDM machine. The Picatinny rails were cut in the upper and lower and a slot milled for the extractor.

 

The rest of the revolver was disassembled and the frame was “Painted”…yep painted black by an outside vendor. The new shroud was anodized black and a fake suppressor was black anodized as well.

 

Everything was reassembled and sent off to the holster guy to manufacture a new leather holster.

 

One week start to finish.

 

I have to admit it looked like a “movie gun” but at the same time we had just destroyed a perfectly good revolver. It gave me sick feeling.

 

We can’t have cameras or camera phones at the plant so I couldn’t take any pictures but look for it when the new “Punisher” movie comes out.

 

Anyway that’s how you ruin a brand new S&W revolver.

Regards,

John "

 

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/...04/m/7661040752

 

Noeland...WAY back on page 18 of this thread I posted this. Now I know the 1911 is "God's Gun" BUT this baby fits straight into the hands of the devil. So pretty. A sidearm worthy of Frank...though it's not an XD...my personal favorite. :)

 

Fred

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TL... do you not know your Punisher history?

 

Micros IS a part of MAX... he was even in the first arc. Don't you remember when Frank blew his head off with a shotgun?

 

 

I think Jigsaw was a good choice... he's pretty much the only villain to survive more than two encounters with Frank Castle. I don't think Ennis liked the character very much, which is why he didn't want to use him in MAX (Though Barracuda seems like a replacement).

 

Martin Soap... WAS ON THE COVER OF MAX #4! (At least it reminded me of Soap, the guy).

 

Looney Bin Jim was made for the screen, yeah. But there's nothing wrong with that. So was Rachel Dawes (bad analogy, but...)

 

And Montreal's a nice city...

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Yeah, but Jigsaw is pretty much a replacement for Nicky Cavella, who I think would have been a much better villain for the movie. Though looking at the IMDb for War Zone, it says that apparently Cavella is in the movie. I hope he isn't wasted like Maginty who basically was Russoti/Jigsaw's bitch in the few scenes he was in.

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Guest AdminGuyX
A sidearm worthy of Frank...

 

Ah, a worthy weapon for his arsenal, yes, but not as a sidearm. Try double tapping someone in a doorway with that thing, ain't gonna' happen. Course' as long as the first round from a 500 smith hits the target, you won't need anything else.

 

And the XD is a solid gun, no question, but it's a young man's gun, not the kind of thing Frank Castle would carry if he had his druthers.

Njc------

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Guest FADoss
Ah, a worthy weapon for his arsenal, yes, but not as a sidearm. Try double tapping someone in a doorway with that thing, ain't gonna' happen. Course' as long as the first round from a 500 smith hits the target, you won't need anything else.

 

And the XD is a solid gun, no question, but it's a young man's gun, not the kind of thing Frank Castle would carry if he had his druthers.

Njc------

 

1911 usually only packs 7 rounds...you could probably double tap just as well with this thing. And you're right...you wouldn't need to.

 

The XD IS a young man's gun, definitely not for traditionalists. I love mine...13 rounds...no manual safetys (lifted the trigger safety from Glock and the 1911 backstrap safety)...light and with relatively little recoil. What a sweetheart. That's her in my profile pic.

 

Fred

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