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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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Hey, I'm one of those guys that hangs out with potheads and doesn't smoke. That also applies to cocaine, acid, opium, ecstasy and probably some other crap that people were doing while I was around.

 

There's nothing wrong with being honest, it's just you're an asshole.

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I don't think anybody on this board thinks I'm a dick, but I'm pretty damn sure most think you are an ass.

You're not a dick. Most people on this forum are fine, it's just Logan. He's an ass to everyone on this forum, even the regulars that have been here with him forever. If anyone has an opinion that differs from his they're an idiot and a nobody.

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I've never had that problem with Thomas Logan. Probably because I'm of the female persuasion. I also don't go out of my way to see how hard I can poke him with a stick.

 

Really, y'all are awfully sensitive for a bunch of guys. I thought y'all talked to each other that way, half kidding, most of the time. I must be mistaken.

 

k-skye

 

 

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well this thread is damn entertaining. question is, what will we do with ourselves once the damn film comes and goes?

 

the problem is how things get out of hand and blown around and facts get distorted to support whatever argument some one is trying to make.

i didn't leave over walter hill. i left because i saw in castle a true tragic figure in fiction, and i loved the guy and i wanted HIS STORY to be told in a realistic manner that is fitting the tale. like taxi driver. like dog day afternoon. like fuckin SERPICO, with some death wish mixed in and yeah it's an action film and yeah it's a comic book but i think the way to keep comic book films alive is to treat them with the respect that the stories deserve. and look out! a guy named Nolan does just that a year later and look what happens.

 

i went to LGF with a BAG of dvd's. thirty or forty. big meeting with everyone from marvel and LG there. and i laid them on the table. all gritty urban crime dramas and action films. you all know the ones. and i said this is what we want to see with P2. i even outlined a simple story where we had a female FBI agent working on bringing down a mob family for three years, doing wiretaps and collecting evidence, and on the big night of the bust, FC walks in and kills every one of them in three minutes. job done. and this chick, she's like who the FUCK is this asshole? Three years down the drain in three minutes by some joker with a skull on his chest? no fucking way. and she goes to her boss and says I WANT FRANK CASTLE. he's an affront to the System. this is a girl who had to do everything by the book just to get where she is, loves her job and believes in it, but is kinda feeling that 'glass ceiling' that women sometimes hit in a man's world. she's had to have all the T's crossed and I's dotted to make it, and FC just pisses her off to no end. she goes after him, and she CATCHES him. Locks him up. job done. but at the same time, the MOB goes after her, and kidnaps her kid. (this was Jigsaw and his men.) they are gonna kill the kid. no time for 'by the book.' so she goes to castle in lock up. she looks at him and he looks at her. and she leaves the key on the floor and walks out. and castle destroys every last one of them.

 

that was the story in a nutshell. i wasn't hung up on that story in particular, just something with some emotion and balls and speaks to the fact that love him or hate him Frank Castle does what he does so we don't have to. he's a necessary evil, because he's the only guy in town who's willing to live with the heinous fucking shit that sometimes has got to be done. everyone nodded their heads and we talked for an hour about bringing back the Great Urban Crime Film. problem was, no one could write it. we went through so many drafts. i even worked with Ennis on an outline. but LG could not get away from the Comic Book Film. it was very light and the characters were just superficial. Sutter did professional work. great guy, trying to give the studio what they wanted. like him a lot. but when it became obvious that LG wasn't interested in developing that KIND of story, and frankly weren't interested in spending the cash on a good script. i said guys, i just can't do this to the character i love. can't live with it. can't make the 'would have been great if' movie of frank one more time. this is me speaking from the heart, and not trying to be PC here. so i walked away and i sent an open letter to Quint at ain't it cool outlining my feelings on the thing. i'm sure you can look it up. THEN LG got another director. THEN the 'reboot' stuff. makes sense to reboot after the actor walks, right?

 

Bradstreet is right - when i say 'piece of crap' that's just me talking. Hey, might be a masterpiece from someone else's POV. i guess if i wanted to be polite i could say 'not my cup 'o tea.' but then that wouldn't be me talking, would it.

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It is a shame that we aren't getting a direct sequel. I would have been more than happy with one. It also was strange for them to put effort into the film right after you leave, that never made much sense to me.

 

Ifs and buts are just ifs and buts. There is nothing anyone can really do about it now. I'm hope this film will be good, I've been a Punisher fan for years and years, before your film and before Ennis. So I'm not going to condemn the film because of some changes of direction. I would have liked it to be a straight sequel, but it's not. If it was, I'd probably be a happy man when I saw "The Punisher 2" on opening day. Ifs and buts. I'm going to be optimistic and hope this movie will be a great Punisher movie.

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I've heard this mentioned at the IMDB boards before and I'm hearing little rumblings over the last few pages concerning this as well.

In a nutshell - Why do the RAW Forum moderators put up with Thomas Logan's campaign of hatred for Warzone?

I've come across other, more judgmental criticisms aimed at us as well. But those too are in reference to TL and why we would permit him to shit in everyone's chili.

 

So why do we permit it? Why don't we suspend him or ban him and his evil ways outright?

Because he has the right to share his opinion just as you all do.

 

We reserve the right to edit posts which we deem out of line (personal attacks, etc . . . see the rules), and keep this forum as clean as we can from that specific brand of kindergarten bullshit. And TL most certainly stepped out of line with his recent response to swebb51 (which has been edited).

I've repeatedly had to clean this thread up, and yes, most of that is due to TL's unrelenting viewpoint.

But my threshold for banning (in spite of the letter of the law) is almost purely limited to people who abuse the forum outright, have nothing to contribute except to leave posts with sales messages and other bullshit. Or come here simply to attack Jane or myself as their little joke. I have not yet felt compelled to ban someone over personal attacks aimed at members, heated differences of opinion, back-biting, pissing contests, or even flame posts.

I didn't ban certain IMDB folks, some of whom had originally come here just to fuck with TL.

I didn't ban GPA Kevin outright (for his recent comments) because I considered open communication to be a better tonic.

 

Unfortunately I cannot account for the maturity level or professionalism of our members. This is a public forum.

I'm not interested in running a house that only sees things in black and white. I won't kick people out of that house because they kicked over a chair in the heat of the moment. And I'm not going to kick someone out even if the majority considers that someone to be an asshole.

 

No love for Warzone at the RAW forums -

----------------------------------------------------

Hmm, well, I myself have seen a plethora of people come out of the woodwork to speak on behalf of this film right here in this thread.

From professionals such as Steve Gainer to the very people who would suggest that negativity.

You all have a voice and you've used it, you're still using it. Maybe the difference is that we have maybe a 50/50 split pro and con instead of outright love or outright hate. Outside of TL it sounds to me like most people are in "wait and see" mode. People are wary. That doesn't make this thread overly negative, I'd say more realistic based on the events. And that's pretty good considering that this is Thomas Jane's forum.

If you haven't voted over at the Warzone Poll then I suggest you do. Maybe that is the true litmus. Right now it looks like a 50/50 split. Only 20 people have voted, get in there and have your say.

----------------------------------------------------

 

Welcome swebb51 ;)

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Specifically, Thomas Logan -

-----------------------------------

Just so we all understand each other. Thomas Logan is not a spokesman for this forum.

He doesn't speak for me, he doesn't speak for Jane. I've seen in some posts that he uses the word "we" which may infer that he speaks for RAW.

He speaks for himself.

He is a prolific member and we value that. Outside of the Warzone thread you will find that he is much easier to get along with.

 

Apologies TL, for referring to you like you aren't here. Just trying to make a point.

-----------------------------------

 

The Steve Gainer thing . . .

OK, let me say this once and for all. I did not apologize to Steve Gainer because I said what I said about the color palette of Warzone.

I apologized to him because I insulted him and his work unintentionally by suggesting that the production hire another DP to color-time (color grade) Steve's work. In my zeal over the color issue I neglected to consider that grading the film is Steve's territory, that he's also in charge during post. I spoke in haste without regard for what my words were suggesting. I honestly thought the statement harmless until Steve contacted me directly to share his feelings on the subject. It was never my premeditated intention to slight Steve in this way. When I realized my slip I was a tad mortified. Steve deserved that apology, period.

My personal feelings towards the neon style color palette may seem to some an unfair criticism. Some even say I was unprofessional because I voiced my opinion.

Bollocks.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Finally, thanks everyone for sharing your viewpoints.

Please try and remain as courteous as you can be.

Play nice and nobody gets hurt.

 

- Tb

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Well this thread is damn entertaining. Question is, what will we do with ourselves once the damn film comes and goes?

 

The problem is how things get out of hand and blown around and facts get distorted to support whatever argument someone is trying to make.

 

I didn't leave over Walter Hill. I left because I saw in Castle a true tragic figure in fiction, and I loved the guy and I wanted HIS STORY to be told in a realistic manner that is fitting the tale. Like Taxi Driver. Like Dog Day Afternoon. Like fuckin SERPICO, with some Death Wish mixed in and yeah it's an action film and yeah it's a comic book but I think the way to keep comic book films alive is to treat them with the respect that the stories deserve. And look out! A guy named Nolan does just that a year later and look what happens.

 

I went to LGF with a BAG of dvd's. Thirty or Forty. Big meeting with everyone from MARVEL and LGF there. And I laid them on the table. All gritty urban crime dramas and action films. You all know the ones. And I said this is what we want to see with P2. I even outlined a simple story where we had a female FBI agent working on bringing down a mob family for three years, doing wiretaps and collecting evidence, and on the big night of the bust, FC walks in and kills every one of them in three minutes. Job done. And this chick, she's like who the FUCK is this asshole? Three years down the drain in three minutes by some joker with a skull on his chest? No fucking way. And she goes to her boss and says I WANT FRANK CASTLE. He's an affront to the System. This is a girl who had to do everything by the book just to get where she is, loves her job and believes in it, but is kinda feeling that 'glass ceiling' that women sometimes hit in a man's world. She's had to have all the T's crossed and I's dotted to make it, and FC just pisses her off to no end. She goes after him, and she CATCHES him. Locks him up. Job done. But at the same time, the MOB goes after her, and kidnaps her kid (this was Jigsaw and his men.) They are gonna kill the kid. No time for 'by the book.' So she goes to castle in lock up. She looks at him and he looks at her. And she leaves the key on the floor and walks out. And castle destroys every last one of them.

 

that was the story in a nutshell. I wasn't hung up on that story in particular, just something with some emotion and balls and speaks to the fact that love him or hate him Frank Castle does what he does so we don't have to. He's a necessary evil, because he's the only guy in town who's willing to live with the heinous fucking shit that sometimes has got to be done. Everyone nodded their heads and we talked for an hour about bringing back the Great Urban Crime Film. Problem was, no one could write it. We went through so many drafts. I even worked with Ennis on an outline. But LGF could not get away from the Comic Book Film. It was very light and the characters were just superficial. Sutter did professional work. Great guy, trying to give the studio what they wanted. Like him a lot. But when it became obvious that LGF wasn't interested in developing that KIND of story, and frankly weren't interested in spending the cash on a good script, I said guys, I just can't do this to the character I love. Can't live with it. Can't make the 'would have been great if' movie of frank one more time. This is me speaking from the heart, and not trying to be PC here. So I walked away and I sent an open letter to Quint at ain't it cool outlining my feelings on the thing. I'm sure you can look it up. THEN LGF got another director. THEN the 'reboot' stuff. Makes sense to reboot after the actor walks, right?

 

Bradstreet is right - when I say 'piece of crap' that's just me talking. Hey, might be a masterpiece from someone else's POV. I guess if I wanted to be polite I could say 'not my cup 'o tea.' But then that wouldn't be me talking, would it.

 

Dude, that outline sounds great.

 

Did you have someone in mind to play the Fed?

 

-TL

 

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Dude, that outline sounds great.

 

Did you have someone in mind to play the Fed?

 

-TL

I remember Jane saying he would like Keaton to play Jigsaw, they would have been cool. After that came out tons of people on IMDb made manips of Keaton as Jigsaw. I wonder if the female Fed was based on O'Brien?

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Just the fact that Frank supposedly kills a good guy (Ray Stevenson himself confirmed this) is enough to turn me off to this film...At this point im not expecting a serious, gritty and faithful Punisher film like we wouldve gotten with Tom Jane..But I am expecting to hopefully get a fun popcorn movie ala Hitman which I enjoyed for what it was.

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Guest FADoss
Yeah he reminded us how cheap LGF really is and how they wanted to make a very light and superficial movie instead of The Great Urban Crime Film.

 

A Kids movie called Warzone.

 

-TL

 

TL,

 

How can you call this a Kids movie? What age group are you referring to?

 

As for Frank killing a good guy...ACCIDENTALLY, how is that off base? I mean the man is a fucking wrecking crew.

 

Fred

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Fred, kids like colorful bloodfests with simple stories they can be spoonfed in 90 minutes.

 

Adults like serious stories with deep and well thought out plots. Something to remove us from bills, work and stress.

 

90% of Warzone's fanbase is people 16-24. That's my estimate.

 

That fanbase doesn't wanna see The Great Urban Crime Film.

 

They think that's boring.

 

They wanna see 100 exploding heads and Dominic West disguised as a peperoni pizza.

 

-TL

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