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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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So wanting a quality film and not some piece of shit makes me biased?

 

I enjoy GOOD films.

 

I don't care if The Punisher is written into a porno.

 

If the film is shit then he is shit in that film.

 

You people need to start being a little more open minded.

 

-TL

You like good films? Didn't you like the '89 Punisher with Lundgren? Also, once again you're calling the kettle black with the "open minded" shtick.

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After seeing Warzone, you are gonna LOVE Dolph's Punisher.

 

Its one thing to make an 80s movie in the 80s, but to make it in 2007 is just pathetic.

 

-TL

We'll see.

 

Here is a question, if Warzone comes out and it's really good, as good as you were hoping it was when you saw the Comic-Con footage, will you admit it or will you still puff out your chest?

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So basically there's nothing else opening Dec 5th.

 

That list of 14 movies includes 6 different genres, but nothing else comic-booky. And as anyone who watches the daily infotainment shows will tell you (because that makes them experts) - comic book movies are big business, so if this is a comic book movie it must be AWESOME!

 

I've read the last 135 pages of this thread with interest but have so far stayed quiet on Warzone. I'm open to anything, and I have enough to keep me busy until Dec 5th without having to speculate and make assumptions based on a few wildly un-credited Harry Knowles-isms. But I'm concerned at the negativism I'm seeing here.

 

14 weeks from now we'll know what LionsGate decided to go with. And on the afternoon of the 5th we can all whine about how great/crappy/cheesy the movie was. Right now, nobody knows what the final product is going to be. But the main character will have a skull on his chest, and beyond that it's just one in a bajillion revenge movies that everyone has seen before.

 

Let's face it. The Punisher debuted in 1974. That year also gave us Death Wish, and for the last 34 years every revenge/vengeance movie has been compared to warmed-over Charles Bronson.

 

It's too bad that Frank Castle is so easily categorized as a one dimensional revenge machine. THAT is what will kill this movie. As soon as Entertainment Tonight describes it as a "seen it before, run-of-the-mill revenge movie" it's over.

 

Fifty-some thousand people read The Punisher on a monthly basis. To open at $15 million requires more than 30x that number to go see it. So you just know there has to be some compromise. 29/30 people who will see this movie have not bought a Punisher comic in the last 8 years.

 

For myself, I'm pleased it got another chance to make it into the movie archive, whether or not it's huge, a flop, or straight to DVD. Just the opportunity to see my beloved Punisher on the screen again makes it happy time in my house.

 

And TB knows how much I looooooves me some Punisher.

If you want anything positive on Punisher: War Zone, you need to be going someplace else. PWZ gets no love here. Try IMDB.

 

If the film isn't butchered on post, Adam, you'll see a three-dimensional Frank Castle. Ray Stevenson "gets" Frank Castle.

 

These are the films opening on the same day, 05 December. Doesn't look like much to me that would draw the same audience.

 

• Milk (about the Harvey Milk killing in San Francisco years ago)

• Punisher: War Zone

• Extreme Movie (teen sex comedy)

• Frost/Nixon (limited) (limited, and not the same audience at all)

• Mei Lanfang (limited) (limited, and a bio of China's greatest opera star, not the same audience)

• Collide (action flic, but even IMDB has nothing about the story and I never heard of anybody who's in it)

• Captive (New York City, New York) (only opening in NYC? This is about the Chechen/Russian war)

 

I don't know about you all, but I see very little here to worry about. Fans of Bond will already have flooded the theatres, Twilight will be huge but is a film for teen girls and young women. A lot of the films Tim mentioned don't share the same, or even similar, audiences. Madagascar???

 

I think Punisher War Zone has a SWEET opening day! So far, at least.

 

Nomad

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Guest AdminGuyX
Its one thing to make an 80s movie in the 80s, but to make it in 2007 is just pathetic.

 

So Lexi isn't so brave anymore I guess? Now she's pathetic?

 

;)

 

I just can't keep up with this thread anymore . . .

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You people are fuckin hilarious.

 

Let me clarify this 80s cheese issue as best as I can.

 

Films that were conceived in the 1980s, films that usually had a last name almost blended into the title (SCHWARZENEGGER COMMANDO, STALLONE RAMBO), films that packed a 20 inch arm instead of a 20 minute monologue - were a product of their time.

 

The Western died, 70s crime thrillers went stale as the stars got old and 80s cheese was simply the anabolical evolution of what was once respectable action.

 

The irony is, 80s cheese is VERY enjoyable.

 

Mainly due to the men that embodied it, and their very limited english vocabulary.

 

Speeches and emotion were no longer warranted. The higher the body count - the better.

 

Its understandable why that generation didn't survive longer than a decade.

 

Today, seeds of those days are still around but in a much more subtle fashion.

 

Making an 80s movie isn't exactly gonna get you period piece recognition.

 

For a minute (JUST A MINUTE) I decided to give Lexi a break.

 

She's a Norris fan, she thinks comic book movies are cartoony, she puts 2 and 2 together and makes an 80s movie about Frank Castle.

 

I kinda liked the PUN in THAT.

 

But then it hit me like a kick in the nuts.

 

WHY?

 

And this was after watching the "R" Trailer a BILLION times.

 

WHY?

 

Why make some goofy Troma movie and not something serious with the little money you have to work with?

 

That's when I remembered that Lexi in the end is still the film director who took a paycheck and said yes to a garbage script.

 

The roots of this movie are as bad as the movie itself.

 

This is no homage to 80s action.

 

This is no slap in the face to modern day action heroes.

 

This is just a paycheck for alotta people and a slap in the face to all of us Punisher fans.

 

The Batman fans are getting their fill and savoring every minute of it.

 

Why couldn't LGF give us that instead of this fuckin clown show?

 

-TL

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It's not out yet, no one has been there for the shooting of the movie. Every thing is hear say. Wait until December to shit all over it. If it sucks, I will rip this movie to shreds. Right now, honestly, I'm not too sure about the movie. I like some of the action, but a lot of it looks way over the top. One too many exploding heads and such, and I think Jigsaw will be portrayed pretty badly, but I don't know that for sure. I don't expect this to be as great as the dark knight or anything, but it could be decent. I won't know for a few months anyway. I'll give it a chance.

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Guest FADoss

Let's see...Batman fanbase and recognition vs. The Punisher fanbase and recognition? Is that a serious pondering?

 

The Punisher just isn't as big as Batman! "The Punisher" doesn't sell a film on it's own. It needs more.

 

And again, let's compare box office between "No Country for Old Men" and "Saw" and see which film YOU would make if you were a film producer looking to make MONEY?

 

Fred

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If the film isn't butchered on post, Adam, you'll see a three-dimensional Frank Castle. Ray Stevenson "gets" Frank Castle.

 

Alas, just because Ray "gets" Frank Castle doesn't mean that "getting" will translate off the movie screen. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I don't think Ray is the only actor in the world who "got" Frank Castle.

 

k-skye

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Guest AdminGuyX

I get a sense of what Ray is trying to do with the role in the trailers and red band footage. I think he gets the character too. I'm looking forward to seeing his performance.

 

My sense of the bigger picture is that he may have been all alone in getting the character.

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I get a sense of what Ray is trying to do with the role in the trailers and red band footage. I think he gets the character too. I'm looking forward to seeing his performance.

 

My sense of the bigger picture is that he may have been all alone in getting the character.

 

Noeland, Dude, WHAT are you talking about???

 

There's no such thing as "being all alone" in this situation.

 

He agreed to star in a HORRIBLE film.

 

And this is the guy that also agreed to star in OUTPOST.

 

So I really don't know WHERE you are getting these vibes of performance strength from this guy.

 

You're gonna have to explain this to me.

 

-TL

 

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Lots of good actors starred in bad films before. Jane for example starred in the sweetest thing, and deep blue sea, Dream Catcher just to name a few. These guys are actors, and good ones. Even if the movie is not all that good, you can at least look forward to their performances. Both Jane and Ray now love the character, and they both want to at least do him justice.

 

Now, to go off topic, when does Jane's Dark country come out. It sounds pretty interesting.

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Slow down a minute.

 

Deep Blue Sea, The Sweetest Thing and Dreamcatcher are AMAZING compared to OUTPOST.

 

And unlike OUTPOST, they actually came out in theatres.

 

They are NOT bad movies, but they ain't brilliant either.

 

OUTPOST is pure SHIT.

 

Next thing, Ray Stevenson had less than 3 months of prep to play Frank Castle.

 

Thomas Jane had about a year, and was actually hesitant to play Castle due to the nature of the generic comic book role.

 

Stevenson said yes in a heartbeat [to that paycheck].

 

So let's not compare the two.

 

If Ray Stevenson "got" Frank Castle, then Thomas Jane IS Frank Castle.

 

Dark Country will be on DVD this March.

 

-TL

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Just because a movie goes to theatres, doesn't mean it's good. They release complete garbage in theatres if they think it wil make money. I mean look at all these parody movies they are releasing. Meet the spartans, epic movie, date movie, and now they're releasing another piece of crap called disaster movies. They shouldn't have been made at all.

 

As for the movie I named, it's my opinion that they are bad. I haven't seen outpost yet, so I don't know how it is. And you don't know for sure why Ray took the role on. Maybe he liked the character and wanted to do him justice, or maybe he had a gun to his head, who knows?

 

As for Jane having a year to get into shape, Ray was on Rome, and had to be in pretty good shape for that. He's a pretty big guy, so I think he will be just as intimidating as Frank. I'm not sure if he will be as good as Jane, only time will tell.

 

That's just my two cents, and you don't like. That's ok, you're still very amusing, and it's nice to debate with someone once in a while. No hard feelings.

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Mike there's NO WAY he turned it down.

 

He honestly didn't have the time to go into negotiations with that.

 

Jane left in late May, Lexi came in at the end of July, Stevenson was in by September, pre-pro began in October and Production began in December.

 

He was in no position to say "Let me think about it."

 

Jane did that like 3 times.

 

-TL

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Guest AdminGuyX
You're gonna have to explain this to me.

 

:) OK.

 

Noeland, Dude, WHAT are you talking about???

 

I'm talking about this:

 

My sense of the bigger picture is that he may have been all alone in getting the character.

 

Dominic West has said he thought they were making a comedy, and his glib attitude in that interview makes me think not only does he not get the character of Frank Castle, but he doesn't have any interest in trying to support the performances around him. I like West a lot, I think he's very talented, but so far I'm getting a sense of "taking a paycheck" from his performance. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Lexi has made some comments about Frank being like Vic Makey, and Ray Liotta from Narc. Both characters who are nothing like Frank, or even each other. I don't feel like searching for the quote, but it struck me that she didn't really understand her lead character properly.

 

Ray - on the other hand - carried around Tim's artwork in his back pocket TL. That means he's interested. he's trying. It means it matters to him that he portrays the darkness, the tragedy, and the danger.

 

So, in the bigger picture I'm not sure his director really knew Frank, and I'm not sure his villian really knew Frank. I won't know for sure until December.

 

In the trailer, I get a sense that ray is trying to give the character a certain voice and physicality that he sees in Tim's work, to embody that fiercness of Frank Castle that Tim brings out of him.

 

The way he moves in some of the scenes looks good, his voice sounds good, and he seems to have the right kind of power in stillness that The Punisher has to have.

 

To explain my comments further:

I'm looking forward to seeing his performance.

 

To see if I'm right or wrong. To see if he truly got it, or if he missed the mark. To see if the final cut lets his performance breath, and be a tragic figure, or just a jaded homeless man out for revenge.

 

You've already made up your mind TL, so I'm sure you'll tell me I'm crazy and that I'm wrong.

 

Not everything can be a slam dunk like Wolverine. Hugh Jackman has had 3 films to show us what he can do in the role, he IS Wolverine without question.

 

Thomas Jane IS Frank Castle.

Well, he WAS, but I agree with your sentiment. It's a hard act to follow bud. I don't envy Ray for having to.

 

But I also don't begrudge him for taking on the challenge.

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Lexi has made some comments about Frank being like Vic Makey, and Ray Liotta from Narc. Both characters who are nothing like Frank, or even each other. I don't feel like searching for the quote, but it struck me that she didn't really understand her lead character properly.

 

Actually she said basically that Frank can't work in that sort of realistic world that Mackey and Henry Oak are in. Which really shows that she does not get Frank, that comment shows she just sees him a comic book character, a cartoon.

 

And Stevenson did turn the part down originally.

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Guest AdminGuyX

OK, I went and dug up the quote:

She writes, " Don't expect this Punisher to be set in an ultra-realistic world. Every director has to make a call on the vision and style of a film and putting The Punisher in a realistic and gritty setting would be like having Det. Vic Mackey of The Shield run around with a big ass skull on his chest, or Ray Liotta's character in NARC suddenly go: 'Hey, I think I just saw a guy whose face looks like a Jigsaw puzzle.' Ha ha. Real crime stories and comic books are two different worlds for me. It was my first priority to please The Punisher comic book fans."

 

My beef with this idealogy was that it would NOT be like having Vic Makey or Ray Liotta if she made a realistic film. Frank Castle is nothing like either of them. He's very different. The comparison bothers me because it shows - in my opinion - she doesn't know who Frank Castle is to begin with if she feels this way.

 

I had forgotten about the end of the quote though, and really, I could not disagree MORE with this part:

 

Real crime stories and comic books are two different worlds for me. It was my first priority to please The Punisher comic book fans

 

It would please the comic book fans beyond words if she had created a starkly realistic and well written crime story for the Punisher. That shit just worries me.

 

But to be fair, TL is right, she didn't have the time to do this between taking the job, and the film going into production. A page 1 rewrite was not possible. Well, if they'd called me or TL it would have been.

 

;)

 

HA!

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