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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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That particurlar style of direction did nothing what so ever for the Punisher, other than diminishing the movie. If Hensleigh had made an original tribute to the cinema of the seventies entirely of his own making, I would be all for it - but as it is, he forced the Punisher into this mold.

And I don't think it worked at all.

 

So what is the direction a Punisher movie should have according to you? Does it need to have jump cuts and flashy camera moves, slow motion shots glorifying the violence? What, because Hensleigh chose to shoot the movie in the manner that he did, it's not the Punisher?

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Guest FADoss

Mike, I think it has LESS of an impact the way it was shot with Frank getting to fight back...

 

Look at it like this. Frank against Saint has to see at least SOME justification to the revenge killing. The comic Frank has NO UNDERSTANDING...There was NO REASON for his family to die.

 

Also, Frank's job in the film kind of brought the danger home...not so in the comic book...

 

Fred

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Well, you can say in both versions there was no reason for them to die. Frank didn't pull the trigger on Saint's son, whatever the reason Saint turned Castle into the scapegoat.

 

The job really didn't bring the danger home, people that work undercover are pretty well protected. The only reason the Saints found out who Castle was was because Jimmy Weeks sold him Frank out.

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So what qualifies someone as a somebody...other that your opinion? You've criticized Christian Bale, Ray Stevenson, Lexi Alexander, Gale Anne Hurd, and a slew of other folks. What makes you MORE of a somebody than Norse Sage? Hypocrisy in deed.

 

Not ONE time have I called any of those people "unoriginal and incompetent no talent hacks."

 

And I don't recall ever sucking off Ray Stevenson. I just gave him respect as an actor.

 

Fred, you practically blew Stevenson when you embraced him as Castle.

 

Why?

 

Because you were fuckin thrilled to see an actor with only ONE little SUPPORTING role in King Arthur portray what you say is a character you love.

 

You HAD NOT seen ROME, You HAD NOT seen Outpost, ALL you had seen was King Arthur.

 

Yet you fuckin campaigned for his ass to the point of calling Thomas Jane "Too Pretty" for the role of Castle.

 

Jeez.

 

-TL

 

 

 

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So what is the direction a Punisher movie should have according to you? Does it need to have jump cuts and flashy camera moves, slow motion shots glorifying the violence? What, because Hensleigh chose to shoot the movie in the manner that he did, it's not the Punisher?

 

The direction is merely half of it.

 

As stated earlier, my primary bone of contention with Hensleigh is his script, which I feel is more a typical seventies style revenge drama than it is a Punisher story. This has a lot to do with Hensleigh's omission of the Punisher's origin and subsequent removal of his philosophcal justification to do what he does, check out my earlier post for more on that one.

 

Beyond the name Frank Castle, the skull t-shirt (whose origin was also terrible, a gift from his son?), and a number of references to the comic, there is nothing quintessentially Punisher about the story. Take away the name Frank Castle, the skull and a number of references to the comic, and the movie is but a standard revenge movie about a widowed husband in law enfocment who goes after the criminals who killed his family. It is for this reason above all I think the movie fails as a Punisher movie.

 

The chosen style of direction to me enhances the weaknesses of the script, and moves the movie as a whole even further away from my ideas of what makes a Punisher movie. On that note, there are literally dozens of different styles of direction that I think would make for an excellent Punisher movie. I can see the Punisher working John McTiernan style, Paul Veroeven style (my personal favorite director for this), Tony Scott style, as well as "The Departed" style, "Sin City" style, "The Shield" style as well as "Sopranos" style, plus countless more I can't be asked to list. There are tons of ways to make the Punisher work on the film, but in my personal opinion, the combination of Hensleigh's seventies inspired script and the Leone style of direction was not among them. Had the script been up to par and the direction the same or vice versa, it might have been a diferent story. But things being the way they are with that movie, its just not my cup of tea. And while I can only speak for myself, I think there are many who feel the same way.

 

TL wrote:

Not ONE time have I called any of those people "unoriginal and incompetent no talent hacks."

You are paraphrasing me from maybe a total of four posts from the imdb boards. That's fair, but I don't recall referring to Hensleigh precisely with those words in that constellation. I've come close mind you, but I don't think I ever come off as that harsh. I'd rather you didn't use quotation marks unless I used those exact words.

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The direction is merely half of it.

 

As stated earlier, my primary bone of contention with Hensleigh is his script, which I feel is more a typical seventies style revenge drama than it is a Punisher story. This has a lot to do with Hensleigh's omission of the Punisher's origin and subsequent removal of his philosophcal justification to do what he does, check out my earlier post for more on that one.

 

Beyond the name Frank Castle, the skull t-shirt (whose origin was also terrible, a gift from his son?), and a number of references to the comic, there is nothing quintessentially Punisher about the story. Take away the name Frank Castle, the skull and a number of references to the comic, and the movie is but a standard revenge movie about a widowed husband in law enfocment who goes after the criminals who killed his family. It is for this reason above all I think the movie fails as a Punisher movie.

 

The same can apply to War Zone, you take away the names and the skull and it's just another vigilante movie.

 

The chosen style of direction to me enhances the weaknesses of the script, and moves the movie as a whole even further away from my ideas of what makes a Punisher movie. On that note, there are literally dozens of different styles of direction that I think would make for an excellent Punisher movie. I can see the Punisher working John McTiernan style, Paul Veroeven style (my personal favorite director for this), Tony Scott style, and even Paul Anderson style as well as "The Departed" style, "Sin City" style, "The Shield" style as well as "Sopranos" style, plus countless more I can't be asked to list. There are tons of ways to make the Punisher work on the film, but in my personal opinion, the combination of Hensleigh's seventies inspired script and the Leone style of direction was not among them. Had the script been up to par and the direction the same or vice versa, it might have been a diferent story. But things being the way they are with that movie, its just not my cup of tea. And while I can only speak for myself, I think there are many who feel the same way.

 

And that's fine, I find faults in the movie myself, but they in way make me think any less of it as a Punisher movie, '04 was just different take on the character. I just think the idea of treating the movie as if it were an urban western was a really good idea, rather than making it into the next generic action movie, that War Zone seems to look like.

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The skull t-shirt's origin was also terrible, a gift from his son?

 

Right, because to wear your son's memory as a symbol for your enemies to fear is just terrible. Fuck.

 

The chosen style of direction to me enhances the weaknesses of the script, and moves the movie as a whole even further away from my ideas of what makes a Punisher movie.

 

Your ideas are clearly shit, because you support Lexi's flashy cheese fest in favor of Hensleigh's Leonesque style.

 

I think there are many who feel the same way.

 

There are many idiots on this planet that are behind the very ridiculous film Lexi seems to have concocted by screaming to the heavens "I'M MAKING A COMIC BOOK MOVIE!!!".

 

Idiots that need to be spoonfed when watching movies.

 

Idiots that Jonathan Hensleigh shoulda watched out for.

 

-TL

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Dude I go to work and come back and there's an extra 5 fuckin pages added on. Slow down guys, Jesus.

 

 

 

Oh and Norse - What would you have preferred for an origin of the skull tee? I think since his son gave him the shirt, it has more meaning than it ever could.....

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Mike you talkin about like a animated show that's hard R or an animated film that's hard R?

 

I've said many times before and I'll say it again, it would be pretty cool if they did like an HBO series for The Punisher. It would do greaaaat. You can make it brutal as fuck. Make it a really hard R show. Put all the characters in. You name it. If Jane is gonna do an HBO show now (Hung), why not do a Punisher show?

 

 

-Raffi

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I'm still not too impressed with the animated films they've put out. It seems like they get on the right track, but manage to screw things up. The sad part is that they have been PG-13, but I don't see why. The tone is not dark, there's no swearing and the violence in minimal.

 

An HBO series could be great, but I was thinking more along the line of an animated film. HBO's Spawn I thought was done pretty well. Needed some work, but the tone was nailed down.

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I was watching Batman: Mask of the Phantasim last night with my daughter. I still can't belive how well that's held up. I saw it when it came out and I liked it, but that was ages ago. Wasn't expection too much, but it surprised me.

 

That and Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker are probably the best Batman movies animated or live action.

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Guest FADoss
Not ONE time have I called any of those people "unoriginal and incompetent no talent hacks."

Fred, you practically blew Stevenson when you embraced him as Castle.

 

Why?

 

Because you were fuckin thrilled to see an actor with only ONE little SUPPORTING role in King Arthur portray what you say is a character you love.

 

You HAD NOT seen ROME, You HAD NOT seen Outpost, ALL you had seen was King Arthur.

 

Yet you fuckin campaigned for his ass to the point of calling Thomas Jane "Too Pretty" for the role of Castle.

 

Jeez.

 

-TL

 

I think everyone else here will agree that you are warping that statement. I did say I though Tom was a little too good looking for Frank. I've also been very supportive of Ray. I don't think that constitutes blowing him...and the fact that you haven't seen much of his work, doesn't make him a BAD actor...and you slammed the hell out of him...

 

No you didn't use the words no talent hacks...but as Mike said... SEMANTICS. Calling them all NOBODIES was pretty much enough.

 

And He did a GREAT job in King Arthur TL. I'd still prefer to see Jane back though.

 

Fred

 

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Guest FADoss
Right, because to wear your son's memory as a symbol for your enemies to fear is just terrible. Fuck.

Your ideas are clearly shit, because you support Lexi's flashy cheese fest in favor of Hensleigh's Leonesque style.

There are many idiots on this planet that are behind the very ridiculous film Lexi seems to have concocted by screaming to the heavens "I'M MAKING A COMIC BOOK MOVIE!!!".

 

Idiots that need to be spoonfed when watching movies.

 

Idiots that Jonathan Hensleigh shoulda watched out for.

 

-TL

 

 

Yes...when reason and logic don't work, just call everyone who disagrees with you stupid. THAT'LL do it. :)

 

Fred

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Have a cookie and a glass of milk, Thomas. While you're snacking on those, contemplate on the fact that even though people disagree with you, the sky is still above and the earth below and nobody's bleeding that I'm aware of.

 

Nomad

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What did everyone think about the first regular MAX issue without Ennis at the helm? I liked it just fine. I'm an Ennis fan, but first I'm a Punisher fan. It was a fine start to a new arc. Ennis' run was damn good, but he's not the only person who is able to write the Punisher.

 

I read 61 as well... damn good read. I've read Hurwitz's novels and I read his Foolkiller series (which is currently guest-starring Frank Castle!). The Punisher is in capable hands.

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I just read the review over on the GPA board and it sounds great! I'm excited to see the art, too.

 

Nomad

I'm a big fan of the style of art used in the book. Here is a sample of the art from the issue.

 

punisher614.jpg

 

I have to say, it was a bit strange seeing "The Punisher" without the name "Garth Ennis" and a badass cover by Mr. Bradstreet.

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I'm a big fan of the style of art used in the book. Here is a sample of the art from the issue.

 

punisher614.jpg

 

I have to say, it was a bit strange seeing "The Punisher" without the name "Garth Ennis" and a badass cover by Mr. Bradstreet.

Well, the art is interesting for sure. Less...how to say?...organic? More stark. It certainly enhances the content. OMG. Frank breaks my fucking heart. *sob!* I don't think it's true, what he says about himself...that he hasn't felt since that day.

 

Frank feels. And the rest of them quake.

 

Nomad

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