The Punisher

[Mike V 0]

I guess the one great thing about the 04 film was the methodical hate Castle exercises in getting his revenge. You REALLY have to hate someone to do what he did.

 

Fred

 

He destroyed man's life and then he has him quite literally dragged to "hell". But then Marvel had to have the fucking flaming skull.

[Golgotha 0]

One of the greatest all time writers of Frank tells all.

 

'My biggest problem is that they played Frank as a detective instead of a soldier. My Punisher would have killed John Travolta as soon as he knew Travolta was the one who ordered his family killed. He wouldn't have investigated and then set up an overly-elaborate sting operation. The movie spent far too much time treading water. Were I writing it? Frank would have found ouyt that Travolkta was his target and then gone through Travolta's stronghold like a dose of Ex-lax. Travolta is the only one who escapes the carnage and goes into the witness protection program to save his own ass. Frank must then hunt his quarry without harming any law enforcement personnel. In the end, the mob learns of Travolta's whereabouts as well and it's a Wild Bunch type stand off between Frank and some federal marshals and an amry of hitmen.' Chuck Dixon was quoted on his own website Dixonverse.

 

All us Punisher fans out there feel a bit the same and would love to see an originator of Frank come out and helm an actually movie of the Punisher.]

 

Sounds a little like some slightly sour grapes cause a former Punisher writer didn't get the call from Hollywood.

One thing I feel like everyone bitches about but actually makes sense here is the methodical and planned way Frank goes about taking down Saint and his empire.

Yes, it's true that the Punisher would go kill Saint without a lot of theatrics and detective work. But this was an origin story. Frank doesn't really become the Punisher until the end of the movie. On that level I have no problem with the way in which he went about his first act of punishment. No one automatically becomes proficient at a mission or even a job. There are variables to consider with every different circumstance. Frank is on his way to becoming an effective and perfect killing machine in the '04 film but he's not there yet.

He still has shreds of his humanity, the drinking, the nightmares, the not-yet-perfected technique of taking out his quarry. It's all so more lamentable that we couldn't see the next chapter of that story with Jane in place, as it sounds like that's the chapter everyone who liked his work in the first film was waiting to see.

 

I also think it's interesting that Dixon sees at least some of the '04 film as a western too.

 

 

[legacyofbrutality86 0]

Sounds a little like some slightly sour grapes cause a former Punisher writer didn't get the call from Hollywood.

One thing I feel like everyone bitches about but actually makes sense here is the methodical and planned way Frank goes about taking down Saint and his empire.

Yes, it's true that the Punisher would go kill Saint without a lot of theatrics and detective work. But this was an origin story. Frank doesn't really become the Punisher until the end of the movie. On that level I have no problem with the way in which he went about his first act of punishment. No one automatically becomes proficient at a mission or even a job. There are variables to consider with every different circumstance. Frank is on his way to becoming an effective and perfect killing machine in the '04 film but he's not there yet.

He still has shreds of his humanity, the drinking, the nightmares, the not-yet-perfected technique of taking out his quarry. It's all so more lamentable that we couldn't see the next chapter of that story with Jane in place, as it sounds like that's the chapter everyone who liked his work in the first film was waiting to see.

I also think it's interesting that Dixon sees at least some of the '04 film as a western too.

 

 

Very well put...I agree 100%, I was one of those that took the 04 film for what it is, an origin film...when u look at it from that standpoint this movie is so much more enjoyable.

[Guest FADoss]

Bought and read "Welcome Back Frank"" finally and hoped it would put more faith in the 04 film for me...it didn't.

 

First of all, as referenced by Tom, the Daredevil scene is GREAT...but it also places Frank square in the middle of the comic world...something I LOVE and everyone else on this board seems to detest...and it's brought to you by Ennis (who by the way is getting ready to bring Frank BACK into the comic world again...OH and he DOESN'T have white gloves and boots in this one).

 

Second, Bumpo, Joan and Dave were such better characters in the comics...and the Russian actually had lines (I guess Nash couldn't do a Russian accent). SO MUCH of this book screams War Zone.

 

One thing I LOVED about the movie over the comic was the films use of Harry Heck. MUCH cooler and one of the best old-school western characters in the film. I just dig the guy. In the comics he's a couple frames...though the idea of Frank eating all these pro killers alive in seconds is very much on par with his character.

 

In hindsight, I think a film that incorporated an origin into a loss welcome back Frank storyline (including the copycats) would have been great! The copycats were a GREAT part of the story and if there is another Punisher film they should be a part of it.

 

So, loved the comic! Still appreciate the 04 film...but "Welcome Back Frank" didn't gain me any more respect than the Extended Cut won over a bit back.

 

Fred

[Mike V 0]

Actually I recall reading that Nash did have lines, they were in Russian. Either way I guess he couldn't do them phonetically.

 

And Hensleigh's first War Zone draft did include the Holy character, but I thought it unnecessary.

[Guest FADoss]

Yeah...he'd make a PERFECT Thor.

[Mike V 0]

He's a wrestler and those guys can go at any time... So, hey gotta make Thor ASAP.

 

I do think that the movie could have used more Year One or a better budget for action scenes (including the bank robbery, which should not have been cut from the shooting script).

[Aurelia 0]

but "Welcome Back Frank" didn't gain me any more respect than the Extended Cut won over a bit back.

 

Fred

 

 

This Extended Cut is "different" or they have simply added a few scenes ?

(I don't find this edition in France...)

 

[Mike V 0]

This Extended Cut is "different" or they have simply added a few scenes ?

(I don't find this edition in France...)

 

It adds new scenes, it does make the movie and the character of Castle darker.

[Jack 0]

The Extended Cut only made this film worse.

[Guest FADoss]

The Extended Cut only made this film worse.

 

I think you're in the minority on this one...

 

Fred

[Jack 0]

I don't give a fuck if I am.

[origin1950 0]

Yeah...he'd make a PERFECT Thor.

 

Hilarious.

 

Kev's a great actor, people will see that if he lands that role.

 

Not only can he act, but he's also a gifted writer and we all know he can crush everyone on this board without breaking a sweat.

 

It was Hensleigh's decision that the Russian character stay mute.

 

Having him talk his ass off would take away from the brutal realism of the fight.

 

-TL

 

[Guest FADoss]

I don't give a fuck if I am.

 

And such a pleasant personality.

 

[Guest FADoss]

Hilarious.

 

Kev's a great actor, people will see that if he lands that role.

 

Not only can he act, but he's also a gifted writer and we all know he can crush everyone on this board without breaking a sweat.

 

It was Hensleigh's decision that the Russian character stay mute.

 

Having him talk his ass off would take away from the brutal realism of the fight.

 

-TL

 

So when I give Ray Stevenson the benefit of the doubt based on "King Arthur"...I'm an idiot. And you can also slam Christian Bale as an actor on here, but Kevin Nash is a "GREAT actor" based on what exactly?

 

Welcome back. Your hypocrisy was duly missed.

 

Fred

[origin1950 0]

So when I give Ray Stevenson the benefit of the doubt based on "King Arthur"...I'm an idiot. And you can also slam Christian Bale as an actor on here, but Kevin Nash is a "GREAT actor" based on what exactly?

 

Fred, Fred, Fred...

 

I don't have to vouch for Kev.

 

The few that know what he is capable of share that sentiment with me.

 

Obviously you don't, and I am not surprised at all.

 

But if you did, well - let's just say it wouldn't do your predictable character justice.

 

To quote Edward Norton: "MARVEL pleases fans with predictable concepts, because fans are predictable."

 

-TL

 

[Mike V 0]

Lets take a look at Nash's filmography.

 

DOA: Dead or Alive (2006) .... Bass Armstrong

Grandma's Boy (2006) .... Mover #2

The Longest Yard (2005) .... Guard Engleheart

The Punisher (2004) .... The Russian

"Nikki" .... The Big Easy (2 episodes, 2000-2001)

- Gimme Shelter (2001)

- Stealing Nikki (2000)

 

Don't know what the hell "Nikki" was, a non speaking role in The Punisher, which all he did was fight and being a wrestler how would he fuck that up. Never seen The Longest Yard remake, don't plan to. Small Role in Grandma's Boy, and the piece of shit that is DOA: Dead or Alive.

[sidewaysgaze 0]

Ahhh...okay, just to inject some levity to the proceedings... well, okay, not levity, but a cool blogger review of The Punisher, here's the bit on Tom:

 

"Thomas Jane played the Punisher, and he was eye-opening. This guy is handsome, and his internalized emotions

fairly writhe on screen behind his stony exterior. Sound corny? Watch the move. This guy should be a big star."

 

and the link to the whole review:

 

http://www.scottstoryillustrator.com/johnnysaturn/?p=794

 

 

Jen

 

 

[Guest FADoss]

Fred, Fred, Fred...

 

I don't have to vouch for Kev.

 

The few that know what he is capable of share that sentiment with me.

 

Obviously you don't, and I am not surprised at all.

 

But if you did, well - let's just say it wouldn't do your predictable character justice.

 

To quote Edward Norton: "MARVEL pleases fans with predictable concepts, because fans are predictable."

 

-TL

 

And I don't have to vouch for Ray. What's your point? Please, continue to dodge the fact that you have just done something you have attacked me for in the past which is say kind things about an actors abilities with limited exposure to what they can do. And if you site his performances in pro wrestling you need to be [MOD EDIT]

 

Fred

[Guest AdminGuyX]

I don't give a fuck if I am.

 

Come on. This isn't really worth starting trouble over.

 

Do you have anything to add to the thread in terms of how you feel about the film?

 

You think it makes the film worse. Great, tell us why you feel that way.

 

Personally, I enjoyed the extended cut a bit more than the theatrical, but I don't feel it was a better story, or the quality of the production was enhanced by the new cut.

 

It still has the same flaws and the same strengths for me.

 

I enjoyed the animated sequence despite feeling it could have been done MUCH BETTER than it was. It felt a bit half ass to me. But I do know they didn't have any money for that, so I try not to hold it against them for giving it the old college try.

 

But I give them an A for effort. I appreciate that they tried to tell that part of the story.

 

 

 

 

 

[relias33 0]

So how about that War Zone?

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike V 0]

So how about that War Zone?

 

Wrong thread.

[relias33 0]

Wrong thread.

 

 

 

Oh my bad that's right... Thanks Mikey.....

 

So how about that Frank Castle? What's next haaa? Ennis doing a War Zone comic with Steve Dillon again..... Punisher: No Mercy.... Good things to come for Castle as the year's coming to an end.

 

I also hear there's a possibility for an Ultimate Punisher. I read somewhere where there was a writer stating that how he wants more Punisher in the Ultimate world of Marvel. I forgot who it was but he said because Castle's already made an appearance in the Civil War: Avengers story, it would make sense to make an Ultimate Punisher and get him involved more with the Avengers. SOUNDS GREAT if you ask me.

 

 

So any of you bitches going trick or treating this Halloween?

 

 

-Raf

[Mike V 0]

Oh my bad that's right... Thanks Mikey.....

 

So how about that Frank Castle? What's next haaa? Ennis doing a War Zone comic with Steve Dillon again..... Punisher: No Mercy.... Good things to come for Castle as the year's coming to an end.

 

I also hear there's a possibility for an Ultimate Punisher. I read somewhere where there was a writer stating that how he wants more Punisher in the Ultimate world of Marvel. I forgot who it was but he said because Castle's already made an appearance in the Civil War: Avengers story, it would make sense to make an Ultimate Punisher and get him involved more with the Avengers. SOUNDS GREAT if you ask me.

So any of you bitches going trick or treating this Halloween?

-Raf

 

Well Ultimate Punisher has been in the Ultimate Spider-Man annuals, he's an ex-cop that tries to stop corruption and his family pays for it.

 

But they are talking about placing him on the Ultimate Avengers team comic.

[relias33 0]

YES YES that's what it was. Actually you know I personally think the way that Castle acted in that Marvel Super Hero Team Up was almost spot on PERFECT for his character. Like out of all of the ways he was portrayed in the comics, I thought that that was one of the best I've seen. The one thing I dislike is how he's a cop. It's fine but I prefer the military background. It's more kick ass. It makes him a better killer I think.