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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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Tim,

 

While the current situation may make it seem like we are extremists, it isnt the case I promise!

 

Maybe I don't have a full grasp, but the attack page on Gale/Jonathan seems like an extremist tactic.

I've said several times that I think your hearts are in the right place, but I could never condone that style of character assassination.

 

Read the above for the strategy.....We welcomed options with open arms....our way isnt everyones cup of tea....I respect that....but we wouldnt be who we are without it...

 

Our opinions are on display here ;)

I'd love to get more into it but the truth is that Wife, family, work, and schedule do not afford me the time to mount up for this battle.

My and everyone else's thoughts are here. If you have some insightful, solid, reliable information you haven't shared then please feel free to do so.

Otherwise how could you hope to get further support?

 

I dont think I named called.....

 

No, no, I was referring to Kevin's post and the subsequent name calling and defense mode anger of the forum members.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

- TB

 

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Guest FADoss

Shutting you down means you're pissing someone off...not that you are making an impact. And last I checked, pissing someone off is not a good way to prepare them for negative feedback. If Gale is the evil overlord that is ruining the franchise do you think posting pictures making fun of her hair and insinuating that her husband is a drunk is a good way to reach her.

 

Your Treaty of Versailles approaches are only going to create Hitler my friend...not bring everlasting peace.

 

Fred

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This is only a rumor, but if it's true, there's absolutely no point in seeing the movie at all now. If anything the over-the-top violence would be, for me at least the only reason to go and see it. So if they are seriously are considering it, again there is no point.

 

The more I read about Lionsgate the more I start to hate them...I mean come on are they really that thick-headed? On the other hand the violence in the red-band trailer looked over the top almost to the point of being really fake looking. Who knows how this is gonna work out, but imo its not looking too good for the franchise...Hopefully it is just a rumor.

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Somebody asked a few pages ago what happened to the IMDB people. Well, ever since Comic-Con, I've been ill...like, in the hospital ill. I can get a doctor's note, honest! And I certainly didn't want to come and play with you boys when I wasn't at my best. I have WAY too many things to say for one post. So I'll concentrate on just one of them now. It's this article, and several like it that came out today:

 

Slowly but surely, Punisher: War Zone is being lowered into a grave of WTF by Lionsgate. First, Lexi Alexander, director of the gorey Marvel actioner, was seemingly kicked off the project. We still don’t know what happened exactly. Her candid, rah-rah website was suddenly wiped clean of all prior updates on the film, save for a cryptic “see, hear, speak no evil” monkey post, which was later replaced by a detached entry about a friend’s Bugatti. Today, Latino Review hears that Lionsgate might edit the film for a PG-13 rating. The site speculates that The Dark Knight’s money volcano was an influence. Strange since Lionsgate is moving forward with an R-rated Conan reboot, also being compared (of course) to TDK. But if true, this is beyond absurd. We’re almost intrigued to see them brick, given that Alexander enticed fans with boasts of hardcore bloodshed and Castle-worthy violence for months—later confirmed by this entertaining, head smashing red band clip.

 

If Lionsgate is reading this, all it takes is a short statement to the fans clarifying your flick’s status. I was just interviewed by a mag about the detrimental impact a studio’s silence in 2008 can have on a movie generally perceived as troubled. War Zone is becoming a prototypical botched case. Current online perception is that there are two bad-buzz nails already in this film’s coffin, and buzz wasn’t too hot to start with. All it takes is one more, like star Ray Stevenson issuing a quiet diss, and this December outing will meet a worse fate than the prior Thomas Jane Punisher. That would make Frank Castle, a character that is, uhhh, not a “college educated Ferrari engine,” 3-for-3 for movie wipeouts.

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/14/lionsg...isher-war-zone/

 

I know a lot of you have respect for Gale Anne Hurd, and you think some of us are unjustly singling her out as the anti-Christ here. Frankly, I don't care who she's married to, or WAS married to. And I seriously objected to GPA including that section called "Motivational Images" in which GAH's physical appearance was lampooned. I wrote to them about it, and others must have objected to that sort of thing as well because I noticed today that it's no longer on their website.

 

I single her out for her behaviour on THIS film, and THIS film alone. In her own words, this is the sort of producer she is:

 

''In a sense, you're the godmother,'' she says. ''You have to be the cheerleader, the den mother, the person the cast and crew come to when they're upset. As women, we are collaborators, problem solvers. We tend to be interested in solutions, not blame. The worst scenario is for a crew to think they have to hide problems because they're afraid of what will happen to them if you find out. I don't have that problem. People come to me early."

 

People come to her early? So we can presume there were no problems requiring Gale Anne's collaborative problem-solving style, or that there were problems and she simply solved them. The script was approved personally by Gale Anne Hurd. She was watching the dailies. How can we explain a film of hers that is suddenly "unwatchable?"

 

Gale Anne Hurd has failed to do ANYTHING to correct the leaks by so-called "insiders" at LGF. She wrote me an email cautioning me not to believe everything I read on the internet, but makes NO effort to correct mis-impressions out there, nor to support her creative team in ANY way. This isn't exactly the behaviour of a self-described den-mother, godmother, cheerleader.

 

It's Ray Stevenson who is left twisting in the wind, associated with a film the producers won't lift a finger to support, won't say a word to correct a mis-impression intentionally created by someone in their organisation to discredit the director.

 

Everyone involved with the production of this film says Ray's performance is amazing. But if that performance is sliced up and PWZ doesn't do well, who gets the blame? Most people will never have heard of Gale Anne Hurd or any of the other producers. The blame will rest on the shoulders of the man whose face is on the screen...Ray Stevenson.

 

And Thomas Jane, you should know that better than anybody, coz I don't think you worked for a couple of years after The Punisher YOU were in got the LGF/GAH treatment. I'll save my rant about YOUR behaviour for another post.

 

Nomad

 

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People come to her early? So we can presume there were no problems requiring Gale Anne's collaborative problem-solving style, or that there were problems and she simply solved them. The script was approved personally by Gale Anne Hurd. She was watching the dailies. How can we explain a film of hers that is suddenly "unwatchable?"

 

Gale Anne Hurd has failed to do ANYTHING to correct the leaks by so-called "insiders" at LGF. She wrote me an email cautioning me not to believe everything I read on the internet, but makes NO effort to correct mis-impressions out there, nor to support her creative team in ANY way. This isn't exactly the behaviour of a self-described den-mother, godmother, cheerleader.

 

If she was watching the dailies she was obviously happy with them. The suits at LG apparently/supposedly didn't like what they were given, same thing happened with The Exorcist prequel. Or it could have ended up being garbage, there's no real knowing.

 

Everyone involved with the production of this film says Ray's performance is amazing. But if that performance is sliced up and PWZ doesn't do well, who gets the blame? Most people will never have heard of Gale Anne Hurd or any of the other producers. The blame will rest on the shoulders of the man whose face is on the screen...Ray Stevenson.

 

I would think the blame would be on the director and editors and not the actor.

 

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I would think the blame would be on the director and editors and not the actor.

 

Sadly, the overall movie-going public really don't care about who is behind the scenes, therefore, Ray would get most of the blame, or at least every film after will be compared to this one.

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Guest FADoss

And the average movie going public is what the big wigs are after...NOT PUNISHER fans. Of course, it would be nice for them to make a film that pleased both, but in the end...they are out to please the MOST people and make the MOST money. If that means butchering someone's creative vision...

 

And funny thing is that NO ONE has thought of the fact, or mentioned it, that maybe HURD is being fucked just like Lexi by the higher ups...except that she has to take all the blame for it...if she wants to continue to be a player in Hollywood.

 

The film business is a scary place.

 

Fred

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And the average movie going public is what the big wigs are after...NOT PUNISHER fans. Of course, it would be nice for them to make a film that pleased both, but in the end...they are out to please the MOST people and make the MOST money. If that means butchering someone's creative vision...

 

And funny thing is that NO ONE has thought of the fact, or mentioned it, that maybe HURD is being fucked just like Lexi by the higher ups...except that she has to take all the blame for it...if she wants to continue to be a player in Hollywood.

 

The film business is a scary place.

 

Fred

 

How can that be? She's married to Jonathan Hensleigh and they have this vast Hollywood conspiracy going on.

 

Sorry about that, just felt like being an ass.

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TJ - Punisher: War Zone is a movie that seems to be in deep shit. Since there are now rumors floating around that it's gonna be a PG-13 movie, I can see this film going straight to DVD. If this movie does goe straight to DVD, would you consider picking up where you left off if Marvel asked you to come back?

 

Would you be a part of an Avengers film like the Civil War story that had Frank Castle take a part in a tactical mission? I think it would kick ass if you did. Marvel needs you. Fuck LGF

 

 

-Raffi

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Lexi Alexander was surprised that whoever did the first teaser could find enough PG footage to do even those 30 seconds. So it's unlikely they could make even an 87 minute version of Punisher War Zone to be PG-13. I don't put much stock in that particular rumour. Though it sure does play well on the internet...gets everybody all wound up, neh?

 

Nomad

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Yeah but there's soooo much fuckin negativity surrounding this whole thing that I have a feeling that it might just go directly to the shelves. It's all fucked up

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Guest AdminGuyX
It's Ray Stevenson who is left twisting in the wind

 

Plenty of actors have survived troubled projects far worse off that PWZ. And regardless of what Lexi said, I'm sure they can trim any film down to PG-13 need be if they don't care about quality or style.

 

Ray is going to have his day, but I don't think PWZ is going to be his cinematic calling card guys. As much as it pains me to type that, because Ray seems like such a cool guy, and I want a good Punisher film that badly.

 

He's got a new film with Willem Dafoe and John C. Rielly that should be a big hit and get a wide release.

 

If this movie does goe straight to DVD, would you consider picking up where you left off if Marvel asked you to come back?

 

It would be AMAZING to have him back in the role.

 

I think TL was correct, Marvel wants a PG-13 Frank Castle film. For all we know it's Marvel putting that pressure on LGF.

 

Mind you, Marvel will probably recast, but I think if they continue to create really solid films, and we get a Dark Knight style PG-13 Punisher film, I'd love that.

 

But Tom hasn't been shy about wanting a very different kind of HARD R Punisher film.

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I'm having a hard time imagining that Lionsgate think they have a Dark Knight on thier hands. They know what they have- A cheap, colourfull, violent movie.

 

LGF should give the rights back to Marvel, then say that they're sorry.

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Lexi Alexander was surprised that whoever did the first teaser could find enough PG footage to do even those 30 seconds. So it's unlikely they could make even an 87 minute version of Punisher War Zone to be PG-13. I don't put much stock in that particular rumour. Though it sure does play well on the internet...gets everybody all wound up, neh?

 

Nomad

 

No like Noeland said, if they really don't care about it much, it's not impossible to edit it down to a PG-13.

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That is true. But look at Land of the Dead, they used digital blood and green screen to get an R rating, same thing with Die Hard 4.0, except they did the opposite and added digital blood for the DVD. In this day and age with computers, you can add or subtract a lot of violence.

 

Whether this rumor is true or not remains to be seen, but it is possible to do.

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Somebody asked a few pages ago what happened to the IMDB people. Well, ever since Comic-Con, I've been ill...like, in the hospital ill. I can get a doctor's note, honest! And I certainly didn't want to come and play with you boys when I wasn't at my best. I have WAY too many things to say for one post. So I'll concentrate on just one of them now. It's this article, and several like it that came out today:

 

Hope you are on the mend Nomad.

 

Slowly but surely, Punisher: War Zone is being lowered into a grave of WTF by Lionsgate. First, Lexi Alexander, director of the gorey Marvel actioner, was seemingly kicked off the project. We still don’t know what happened exactly. Her candid, rah-rah website was suddenly wiped clean of all prior updates on the film, save for a cryptic “see, hear, speak no evil” monkey post, which was later replaced by a detached entry about a friend’s Bugatti. Today, Latino Review hears that Lionsgate might edit the film for a PG-13 rating. The site speculates that The Dark Knight’s money volcano was an influence. Strange since Lionsgate is moving forward with an R-rated Conan reboot, also being compared (of course) to TDK. But if true, this is beyond absurd. We’re almost intrigued to see them brick, given that Alexander enticed fans with boasts of hardcore bloodshed and Castle-worthy violence for months—later confirmed by this entertaining, head smashing red band clip.

 

Well a PG-13 would be disappointing at this stage. If that had been the plan from the start it wouldn't even really be an issue now.

Dark Knight's rating was the plan from the start so that the material could be viewed by as much of the film going public as possible.

A Punisher R should be a different animal entirely. It seems like everyone involved but Tom wanted to make a popcorn flick but fill it with a little of the 'ol ultra violence to satisfy our violence addicted youth, also allowing it to be more dynamic than a PG-13 would. But trim down the violence and that's exactly what you have here, a PG-13 film. It doesn't appear to me that they were going for high art in terms of story, mature themes, or adult content. The only real reason that a hard R was in place was so we could see blades being driven into skulls, faces being caved in, in graphic full color 60 feet high (yes I'm referring to the '04 version as well).

 

'04's Punisher would have been relatively simple to trim to a PG-13, remove a coupla four-letter words and cut back on the graphic nature of some of the kills and it wouldn't really have lost that much. But with Warzone there seems to be a helluva lot more graphic scenage. To trim off all of that would seem to leave a lot less since, as Lexi has inferred, there is a large amount of it. If this is the plan I'm afraid that watching this film would not be unlike watching the 13th Warrior (as much as I love it), there are many instances when you know full well that you are missing something, that the film has jumped around, that entire characters (Diana Venora) have been all but removed.

 

On this level I have to agree that I'd much rather see an intact cut rather than an editing room chop-fest.

Still, don't we have to consider this rumor for now? I can also see the angle of re-editing to make a better film, not necessarily just chopping out all the violence (which also leads to dozens of other rabbit holes).

 

 

If Lionsgate is reading this, all it takes is a short statement to the fans clarifying your flick’s status. I was just interviewed by a mag about the detrimental impact a studio’s silence in 2008 can have on a movie generally perceived as troubled. War Zone is becoming a prototypical botched case. Current online perception is that there are two bad-buzz nails already in this film’s coffin, and buzz wasn’t too hot to start with. All it takes is one more, like star Ray Stevenson issuing a quiet diss, and this December outing will meet a worse fate than the prior Thomas Jane Punisher. That would make Frank Castle, a character that is, uhhh, not a “college educated Ferrari engine,” 3-for-3 for movie wipeouts.[/b]

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/14/lionsg...isher-war-zone/

 

I know a lot of you have respect for Gale Anne Hurd, and you think some of us are unjustly singling her out as the anti-Christ here. Frankly, I don't care who she's married to, or WAS married to. And I seriously objected to GPA including that section called "Motivational Images" in which GAH's physical appearance was lampooned. I wrote to them about it, and others must have objected to that sort of thing as well because I noticed today that it's no longer on their website.

 

Bravo to GPA for doing away with that. Their fight with the powers that be is far more legit without that angle.

 

I single her out for her behaviour on THIS film, and THIS film alone. In her own words, this is the sort of producer she is:

 

''In a sense, you're the godmother,'' she says. ''You have to be the cheerleader, the den mother, the person the cast and crew come to when they're upset. As women, we are collaborators, problem solvers. We tend to be interested in solutions, not blame. The worst scenario is for a crew to think they have to hide problems because they're afraid of what will happen to them if you find out. I don't have that problem. People come to me early."

 

People come to her early? So we can presume there were no problems requiring Gale Anne's collaborative problem-solving style, or that there were problems and she simply solved them. The script was approved personally by Gale Anne Hurd. She was watching the dailies. How can we explain a film of hers that is suddenly "unwatchable?"

 

Perhaps we can also assume that Gale was on the same page with Lexi and that it's the other power players that took exception. As much as she may have supported Lexi she still has to answer to the studio and the other producers. If they didn't like what they saw then Gale would not really have much of a choice in terms of fixing the problem. In for a penny, in for a pound as they say. Either scenario is sheer speculation based on the bits of info we have to work with. Gale doesn't need me to defend her, and that's not my goal here. I'm just saying that there are many more players involved than strictly Lexi and Gale. To single things down to issues between the two of them is ignoring a large chunk of perspective. It is my belief that the issues go far beyond those two.

 

Gale Anne Hurd has failed to do ANYTHING to correct the leaks by so-called "insiders" at LGF. She wrote me an email cautioning me not to believe everything I read on the internet, but makes NO effort to correct mis-impressions out there, nor to support her creative team in ANY way. This isn't exactly the behaviour of a self-described den-mother, godmother, cheerleader.

 

Wouldn't it be great if everyone could speak their minds without repercussion? Realistically, Valhalla and LGF are partners. For Gale to take it upon herself to correct mis-impressions and leaks allegedly coming from inside LGF it would be a case of undermining her partners. Why would she do that? The producers and studio have to stay in alignment to a certain degree or there would be complete chaos (not just chaos on a smaller level). At the end of the day the studio and the producers (who all likely have confidentiality clauses in their contracts) will do whatever they have to do, and they do not have to answer to us. It's already pretty evident what happens to those who want to speak out. You get taken out off the loop. And Gale's been around too long to go that route.

It sucks for us, it's frustrating, not doubt about it. But that is the way it is. Maybe after the fallout we'll get a more clear picture of the events.

 

It's Ray Stevenson who is left twisting in the wind, associated with a film the producers won't lift a finger to support, won't say a word to correct a mis-impression intentionally created by someone in their organisation to discredit the director.

 

Ray is caught up in the situation for sure. His performance and his fate are in other people's hands. But since we do not know the real reasons surrounding Lexi's departure (and it certainly wasn't because of the things she said on her blog) then I'd say that the jury is still out on how Warzone and Ray come off.

Is it headed for disaster? It doesn't look good. But also consider that the re-edit may actually be in the film's best interest. Someday we'll know for sure, and even then we'll be arguing about it until the cows come home ;) . . . . PG-13 rumor notwithstanding.

 

Everyone involved with the production of this film says Ray's performance is amazing. But if that performance is sliced up and PWZ doesn't do well, who gets the blame? Most people will never have heard of Gale Anne Hurd or any of the other producers. The blame will rest on the shoulders of the man whose face is on the screen...Ray Stevenson.

 

I think that more accurately it will be a case of blame falling squarely on Lexi, whether she deserves it or not. If Ray truly does kick ass and is incredible in the role then it would simply be another Tom Jane situation. The consensus most seem to agree with is - "bad film with an excellent performance by the lead".

Jonathan Hensleigh took ALL the heat for the failings of '04's Punisher. He was the scapegoat. The director normally is, again, whether they deserve that indictment or not. Hensleigh at least had the chance to talk about why it didn't all work in the DVD commentary. For those people interested enough to learn more, the pitfalls became a lot more clear hearing Jonathan's own words on the subject. Fans and critics beat him to death rather unfairly. I predict the same thing will happen to Lexi unless by some miracle this film transcends all the forces standing against it and delivers. Jane didn't suffer nearly as bad so my hope is that Ray won't either.

 

And Thomas Jane, you should know that better than anybody, coz I don't think you worked for a couple of years after The Punisher YOU were in got the LGF/GAH treatment. I'll save my rant about YOUR behaviour for another post.

 

LOL.

 

- TB

 

Nomad

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Guest FADoss

Yep, pics and video are down, but Kevin is still an a-hole:

 

"8/14/08 - The total badasses at Lionsgate claim that all of our videos and images, including pictures of Gale Anne Hurd and Jonathan Hensleigh and all the rest, are theirs. Ha!

 

I really like our web provider and refuse to put them in the middle... I also love this site too much to let it die because I was too stubborn to bend to a will I have no recourse against. I am complying in full with their wishes."

 

I was hoping he had taken them down because he realized how childish and stupid most of it was... I actually had hope for the guy.

 

Fred

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Yeah, he still has this holier than thou thing going on.

 

For the Record

 

Apparently the appropriate thing to do when you disagree with somebody is to sit in your own lonely tower with the same old folks who, much as you may love them, aren't the people you have a problem with. I'm used to doing that... but when somebody I previously trusted lashed out at PWZ Truth, I didn't want to mutter ugly things about them in the dark. So I thought I'd do something unusual, despite the common wisdom, and confront somebody with influence who had trashed the site I staked my reputation on.

 

I'm not really interested in what other people said. I'm interested in what the main guy says... it's his message board I'm stepping on to, and he's the one I'm there to tell what I think. I wouldn't even bother if words like "bullshit" and "slander" hadn't been used by this man to describe what I've done, very much prior to my visit to his tower. Words not said to my face, but words spoken to his followers, in his own lonely tower... not directly to me, not directly on our site or even in an email. I saw him endorse that method of trashing others when he suggested, "do it on your own site."

 

But if ever somebody tells you that I was the first to slap them in the face, you tell them from me... I don't start fights. I face them with aggression, I face them with hostility, and I face them from the heart... but I don't start them.

 

I didn't start the problem with Gale Anne Hurd... she did. I followed through and made sure everybody could see what was obviously going on. Don't say I didn't warn you about where War Zone is going.

 

Additionally for the record... mocking images are mocking images, and words given as the truth (at least from my mouth or typed by my fingers) are the truth. Accept no substitutions... if I said it, it's ridiculous to get clarification on my words from others.

 

 

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Guest FADoss

What a dipshit. He sounds psychotic... Like he maybe thinks he's the Punisher... or that what he's doing is heroic, worthwhile, effective or even well-done.

 

It's all pretty stupid...and sad.

 

Fred

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That PG-13 story never rang true to me. I believe THIS guy:

 

There is a rumor that has started circulating around this little thing called “the internet” that Lionsgate is pushing for the next installment of The Punisher to be rated PG-13. Given all we know of the franchise, this immediately smelled foul. Not being without charms and fully utilizing our ruggedly handsome looks, we tracked down our own source who is, of course, “close to the production.” Their word? *beep*

 

We could add some words in front of that, like “complete,” “total,” or “utter,” but it throws off the feng-shui of the post, but they would be appropriate. It looks like this originated over at Latino Review, who indicate that they have their own source. Now, I love those Latino Review guys, but I have no idea who they’re talking to. I do, however, definitely know our source and know that I trust them completely. Punisher: War Zone will be Rated R for Rambo-Levels of violence. Which is a good thing, because the kill count of Rambo (another Lionsgate release) was 236 and featured some of the best gore violence in years.

 

Now, while being Rated-R, the film is still facing a troubled production run, detailed by our Neil Miller at the end of last month. Who knows what else is going on in making the film “presentable,” though it probably has to do mostly with timing. While our source is more than enough for me, for you kids keeping count at home there are a few other things to keep in mind. First, former Marvel Entertainment CEO Avi Arad (and current Marvel producing partner) Avi Arad has always said that The Punisher was one character who would carry the R-Rating at Marvel (the other being Blade). Second, producer Gale Anne Hurd spoke at great length at Comic Con about the film and stressed the level of violence that would be in the film. Lastly, the exclusive footage shown at Comic Con, which was very well received, was definitely from a film that was Rated R, and it was the point they were selling - brutal.

 

In summation, this PG-13 rumor is total *beep* Punisher: War Zone is still not a ship sailing smoothly, but it will come to theaters with that Rated R stamp all over it on December 5. And just in case you need more evidence of the R-Ratedness, have a look at the clip below, which was launched a few weeks back at Comic-Con.

 

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/news/puni...-punish-in-r-ra ted-way.php

 

Nomad

 

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