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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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I'd like to apologize for taking part in the mess that happened earlier. It wasn't my intention to attack anyone. Sure, I'm from the IMDb forums, but you can even read over there how I said I'm coming over here to say "my two cents" not to "troll their forums". There are few of us over at the IMDb forums who stick up for Jane and the '04 Punisher film, and I'm one of the ones who do. But still, I will continue to be optimistic about WarZone until I actually walk into the theater and watch the film.

Were we trolling, FearEmbodied? I thought we were just having fun, neh? I DO look forward to discussing the trailer which I HOPE we see at Comic-Con next week!

 

Nomad

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Guest AdminGuyX
I'd like to apologize for taking part in the mess that happened earlier.

 

I don't think there is a need, I think you've shown yourself to be a cool guy with a point of view to share.

 

I thought we were just having fun, neh?

 

I missed the party, but yeah, it seemed like fun.

 

:)

 

WARZONE!!!!

 

Lets talk about it some more guys.

 

 

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I really hope this movie turns out well. I feel it is the last chance for the punisher to get a movie. I will miss Jane though, he was awesome. I think there is a 50/50 chance of this film being good, maybe a 65/35 chance in the favor of the movie. I guess we will have to wait until December. On a side note, Dark knight comes out this friday. I can't wait to see it. Heath has got nothing but rave reviews.

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Well the cool thing that I've seen is that there has been some solidarity between the two camps.

What started out as a (forgive me) "witch hunt" to fuck with Thomas Logan has done a complete 180.

And that is mainly due to Steve's willingness to share his thoughts on a work he is proud of.

Then, with the IMDB-ers pulling back and playing it cool.

VERY interesting chain of events.

 

What I mentioned yesterday about vehement enemies becoming friends seems to resonate here.

I think we ALL have something in common. We're passionate about the things we love, will defend those things to the ends of the earth.

With TL it was his disappointment that Jane and the old regime would not be helming this film, that it would not be a sequel but a re-boot.

That's the lynch-pin. With the pro Warzone faction it was a case of defending this film at all costs with huge support for Ray.

Nice, really nice to see that elements of the two communities could find a way to connect at a certain level here, regardless of the initial impetus.

 

The GPA (Gansta Punisher Army) showed up here early on, butted heads with TL and a few others, things got nasty but it never had the chance to evolve.

Haven't seen those guys around here in months. But the same can be said of them, passionate, we're all just huge Punisher fans.

 

I think WE at the RAW boards need a little understanding as well. For the most part this is not a community of sycophants. Most people here are intelligent enough that we don't seriously worship the ground an actor or an artist walk on. Tom and I are real people, we're just like all of you, it's just that we may play on different fields. Granted, most people here are either fans of Jane or myself. That's obvious, it is our forum after all. But I feel like the perception I've experienced on other boards (not just IMDB) is that we're all rallying around Jane and would condemn Warzone outright. I think that is largely a false perception.

 

Mostly what I see here are fans who certainly loved what Tom brought to the role, and are disappointed that they won't get to see that next chapter unfold.

As such they are torn between what might have been, and what is. I think that excluding TL and a small handful of others, Warzone has been been embraced outright by some with the rest being open-minded enough to give it a chance.

 

Conversely, I feel like IMDB is slanted somewhat pro Ray because Nomad herself is a senior member, and huge contributor to the Ray Stevenson forum community.

As it should be! But I do think that the time has come to stop the debate about who was better, who is better, that subjective war of personal tastes, and move on. And thankfully it seems like we've made tremendous strides on that in the past 24 hours.

 

The whys and the wherefores surrounding the reasons Tom left are largely unimportant now. But I ask that WARZONE fans respect the fact that Tom did exercise his right to leave the production for very good reasons. I don't see a clear-cut reason to vilify him. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything else but a script Tom could not in good conscience attach himself to, and that LGF was unwilling to invest more money in, pursuant to further rewrites - Fair both ways. In addition they could not meet on solid ground concerning a director. And as I've mentioned here before, IF Tom was presented with a director he could put his faith and trust in, it's my strong feeling he would have stuck it out regardless of the script in question. There was never a case of Tom demanding more money. There was never a case of LGF letting Tom go.

 

It was not an easy decision. And of course, Tom's gotta wonder if he did the right thing. He's human.

I propose that we respect his decision and refrain from speculation.

 

Let's put all that behind us as Warzone approaches.

 

- tb

 

 

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Conversely, I feel like IMDB is slanted somewhat pro Ray because Nomad herself is a senior member, and huge contributor to the Ray Stevenson forum community. As it should be! But I do think that the time has come to stop the debate about who was better, who is better, that subjective war of personal tastes, and move on. And thankfully it seems like we've made tremendous strides on that in the past 24 hours.

 

**********************************************

 

Damn! I'm busted! :rolleyes: It's true I'm a big Ray Stevenson fan. But not an indiscriminate one. There is a lot of early stuff he did I'm luke warm on, at best. But the Titus Pullo role is what did it for me. That was a character any actor would sell his soul for, but not any actor could do. Ray got it and boy did HE deliver!

 

And because of that performance, Lexi Alexander certainly thought he was perfect for Frank Castle. Lot's of people think so. Over at IMDB, people come in there every day posting threads like "Ray Sucks" or "Only Jane Can Do This Role" or "This Film is Going to Suck." And it's ALWAYS Jane fans doing it. So yeah, we get a little sensitive about it.

 

But this is a really good group on this board...which I had NOT expected! *using Gomer Pyle voice* Su-PRIZE, su-PRIZE! And even though I was having probably more fun last night then I should have, people were surprisingly polite!

 

By the way, how does one become a "senior member" of IMDB? I think there IS NO such thing! And there are plenty of people who have been posting there a LOT longer than I have! Just askin'.

 

Nomad

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By the way, how does one become a "senior member" of IMDB? I think there IS NO such thing! And there are plenty of people who have been posting there a LOT longer than I have! Just askin'.

 

Nomad

 

Apologies Nomad, I was referring to the Ray Stevenson boards.

My bad punctuation has betrayed my intent.

;)

 

- TB

 

PS - joshuabyard - No plans for Wizard World TA-Haas. Alas.

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You know, I never understood how you GPA guys (and this goes for some of the IMDB crowd as well) could embrace Ray Stevenson so quickly.

 

I mean I can appreciate a positive outlook towards a MAX inspired Punisher film (despite the drama surrounding it) but I am fuckin POSITIVE most of you were not familiar with ROME.

 

I'm the kinda guy that needs to be impressed in order for me to give someone my approval. Specially in this case.

 

Prior to Hensleigh's Punisher, I was already a Thomas Jane fan.

 

I rented THURSDAY 10 years ago and was blown away by this Indie film badass I'd never seen before.

 

In 2003, I went to see STANDER at the Ft. Lauderdale Film Festival and it was around that time that Jane's first pic as Castle (that crappy early shot from the Teaser) was released.

 

I said "Ok. This can work.". Once I saw the full trailer I knew I was right.

 

With Stevenson, I went to Blockbuster and rented both seasons of ROME and then the Unrated Cut of KING ARTHUR.

 

The guy just didn't convince me. The subject matter was too different - and he's got a VERY heavy accent.

 

OUTPOST sure didn't help.

 

So how were you guys able to jump on the Stevenson wagon so quickly Arsh?

 

And I'm hoping your answer isn't "He looks like The Punisher."

 

-TL

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You know, I never understood how you GPA guys (and this goes for some of the IMDB crowd as well) could embrace Ray Stevenson so quickly.

 

I mean I can appreciate a positive outlook towards a MAX inspired Punisher film (despite the drama surrounding it) but I am fuckin POSITIVE most of you were not familiar with ROME.

 

I am familiar with Rome. It comes on the History channel like every Saturday here... I don't see anything wrong with embracing Stevenson. We're just an optimistic bunch. Kind ironic for a die-hard Punisher crowd. Besides, it's the character of Punisher first, the person playing it second. As long as the essence of the character is carried across, I'm happy.

 

I'm the kinda guy that needs to be impressed in order for me to give someone my approval. Specially in this case.

 

Well, let's hope you get impressed. I mean, getting impressed is one thing, but being entirely prejudiced before someone even has the chance to impress you is something quite different.

 

Prior to Hensleigh's Punisher, I was already a Thomas Jane fan.

 

I rented THURSDAY 10 years ago and was blown away by this Indie film badass I'd never seen before.

 

In 2003, I went to see STANDER at the Ft. Lauderdale Film Festival and it was around that time that Jane's first pic as Castle (that crappy early shot from the Teaser) was released.

 

Stander was a great movie. I was annoyed it never got the attention it deserved.

 

I said "Ok. This can work.". Once I saw the full trailer I knew I was right.

 

I thought it would work too once having seen the trailer... even with the damned 'Bodies' song, which I hate so very much.

 

Besides, Thomas Jane was not the problem with the '04 film. You already know about the problems I had with the '04 film. Tom Jane was the best part of the '04 film, the stuff happening around him messed the film.

 

With Stevenson, I went to Blockbuster and rented both seasons of ROME and then the Unrated Cut of KING ARTHUR.

 

The guy just didn't convince me. The subject matter was too different - and he's got a VERY heavy accent.

 

OUTPOST sure didn't help.

 

Well, maybe PWZ might change your mind. I kind of liked Outpost and King Arthur. Rome was very good in my opinion. We have different opinions. I've seen stuff he was in and liked it, you didn't.

 

So how were you guys able to jump on the Stevenson wagon so quickly Arsh?

 

Because I'm optimistic. If Dolph could do it, and if Tom could do it, why can't Ray do it? At heart, I'm ultimately an idealist. I want to hope for the best, that's why I think Ray could pull it off. You're a lot more cynical than I am. You need proof. Maybe I'm just naive... but I really don't care.

 

And I'm hoping your answer isn't "He looks like The Punisher."

 

Also, he looks like the Punisher :lol:

 

-TL

 

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Well you need to make some plans to get there... lol. I'm a huge fan of yours and it would be nice to see you and person and all. Great work all these years on the punisher covers not to mention the hellblazer stuff. Very nice!!!

 

I usually do a smaller Dallas show, the Dallas Comicon, AKA The SFX Sci-Fi Expo.

Keep your eyes peeled there. I'm in Dallas fairly regularly.

 

Thanks for the kind comments.

- tb

 

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Arsh, for me watching Warzone is gonna be a very climactic experience.

 

Its gonna be 1 year of really bad anticipation fueled by evidence to suggest something outstandingly inferior to Hensleigh's Punisher film.

 

Its gonna be a Punisher movie WITHOUT Thomas Jane.

 

And its gonna be a HUGE fuckin surprise to me, if the film is good.

 

Thanks to Steve Gainer, I am now curious to find out.

 

-TL

 

 

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Guest FADoss
I usually do a smaller Dallas show, the Dallas Comicon, AKA The SFX Sci-Fi Expo.

Keep your eyes peeled there. I'm in Dallas fairly regularly.

 

Thanks for the kind comments.

- tb

 

Keep me posted yo! I think its common knowledge that I'm in Austin now. Did my last short in Wichita Falls and have family up by Dallas. Would love to bump into you up there. I have plans to go to Wizard World, but if you're going to be at the Dallas Comicon...I may have to switch.

 

STEVE,

 

Thanks for the kind words. Just seems too good to be true to have you here with your insight. If TL doesn't get you that list soon...I'll have to whoop him. Our film is going to be a blast (and only ours because...I'm in it...smaller role, but I'm there).

 

I'm putting together an "Outpost" style horror flick out here in TX. Very beginning stages. Have a bunch of actors like myself who all have military backgrounds and want to do something. Don't even have a script yet!

 

You on myspace or any of that jazz?

 

Fred

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Keep me posted yo! I think its common knowledge that I'm in Austin now. Did my last short in Wichita Falls and have family up by Dallas. Would love to bump into you up there. I have plans to go to Wizard World, but if you're going to be at the Dallas Comicon...I may have to switch.

 

STEVE,

 

Thanks for the kind words. Just seems too good to be true to have you here with your insight. If TL doesn't get you that list soon...I'll have to whoop him. Our film is going to be a blast (and only ours because...I'm in it...smaller role, but I'm there).

 

I'm putting together an "Outpost" style horror flick out here in TX. Very beginning stages. Have a bunch of actors like myself who all have military backgrounds and want to do something. Don't even have a script yet!

 

You on myspace or any of that jazz?

 

Fred

 

I'm right here:

 

www.stevegainer.com

 

And very often in Austin. When I'm not shooting a film (now over thirty of them) I'm shooting music videos (well over 300 now) I tend to shoot a lot in the south. I have been employed alot in the last five years by some great country music stars to shoot their vids. Kenny Chesney, Brad Paisley, Rascal Flats, Garth Brooks, Allison Krause, to name a few. When I'm not in LA, I like to hang around Nashville and do stupid shit like metal detect for civil war relics. I know, what a dork, eh? Haven't done quite as much of that since the kids came along though. It's like herding cats around here....

 

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Steve, I'm wondering if you could confirm this for me. I read a version of the script awhile back, there was a scene that involved a death by lobster, I just hated it, I thought it was too cartoony. So what I'm asking is has that been cut?

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Guest FADoss
I'm right here:

 

www.stevegainer.com

 

And very often in Austin. When I'm not shooting a film (now over thirty of them) I'm shooting music videos (well over 300 now) I tend to shoot a lot in the south. I have been employed alot in the last five years by some great country music stars to shoot their vids. Kenny Chesney, Brad Paisley, Rascal Flats, Garth Brooks, Allison Krause, to name a few. When I'm not in LA, I like to hang around Nashville and do stupid shit like metal detect for civil war relics. I know, what a dork, eh? Haven't done quite as much of that since the kids came along though. It's like herding cats around here....

 

Let me know when you're in Austin next! Would be cool to chill. I'm a boring old married guy, but I could probably sneak a beer. :)

 

find me here or at fredericdoss@gmail.com

 

Later

 

Fred

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Guest AdminGuyX
When I'm not in LA, I like to hang around Nashville and do stupid shit like metal detect for civil war relics.

 

COOL. You gotta try that here in Atlanta some time Steve. I'm an avid civil war buff myself (US history in general, but that area is a subject I really enjoy) and this area has loads and loads of relics in the blue ridge mountains, red top mountian, and in many of the surrounding towns and such there is a wealth of historical sites.

 

 

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Apologies Nomad, I was referring to the Ray Stevenson boards.

My bad punctuation has betrayed my intent.

;)

 

- TB

 

PS - joshuabyard - No plans for Wizard World TA-Haas. Alas.

Why, Tim, are you internet stalking me? Mm? :P

 

Nomad

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You know, I never understood how you GPA guys (and this goes for some of the IMDB crowd as well) could embrace Ray Stevenson so quickly.

 

I mean I can appreciate a positive outlook towards a MAX inspired Punisher film (despite the drama surrounding it) but I am fuckin POSITIVE most of you were not familiar with ROME.

 

Oh my. Where to begin? TL, sit down, Darling. Here, have a nice cold beer. This is going to come as a shock to you, I know. *waits for you to settle into the easy chair.* *Takes your hand in mine and gives it a comforting pat* *clears throat* TL, dear boy, I had meant to mention this to you before, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But it's time, now. *pats your hand again* TL, there are many people out there who are NOT fans of the 2004 movie. I know, it's hard to fathom, Darling. But there's something else, too. I'm so sorry to have to tell you this. But there are many people out there who are NOT even fans of Tom Jane! So, for them, it was EASY to embrace another actor. It's okay, Baby. Have another beer.

 

With Stevenson, I went to Blockbuster and rented both seasons of ROME and then the Unrated Cut of KING ARTHUR.

 

The guy just didn't convince me. The subject matter was too different - and he's got a VERY heavy accent.

 

He DOES have an accent. No, that's not quite right. He has SEVERAL accents. He's a formally trained ACTOR with an entire repertoire of accents at his disposal. He even has more than one AMERICAN accent.

 

OUTPOST sure didn't help.

 

Good roles are very difficult to come by. Any actor will tell you that. Sometimes, they just have to pay the bills and hope what they do gets noticed so they can do something better next time. Welcome to the real world, TL. I know it's hard, Baby. But, there it is!

 

So how were you guys able to jump on the Stevenson wagon so quickly Arsh?

 

And I'm hoping your answer isn't "He looks like The Punisher."

 

Arsh can answer for himself. But Ray DOES look like many versions of The Punisher. I really feel badly for you TL. Coz I fear you're going to spoil your own enjoyment of this film just because you don't WANT to like it. I daresay that's likely the reason you didn't enjoy Rome. Coz you're the only person I EVER heard say they didn't love Ray Stevenson's Titus Pullo, even if they thought the subject matter too different. Sad, Baby. So very sad. Have another beer.

 

Hey! I'm clearly not getting the hang of the colored text on this site. What have I done wrong?

 

Nomad

 

-TL

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You know, I never understood how you GPA guys (and this goes for some of the IMDB crowd as well) could embrace Ray Stevenson so quickly.

 

I mean I can appreciate a positive outlook towards a MAX inspired Punisher film (despite the drama surrounding it) but I am fuckin POSITIVE most of you were not familiar with ROME.

 

I'm the kinda guy that needs to be impressed in order for me to give someone my approval. Specially in this case.

 

Prior to Hensleigh's Punisher, I was already a Thomas Jane fan.

 

I rented THURSDAY 10 years ago and was blown away by this Indie film badass I'd never seen before.

 

In 2003, I went to see STANDER at the Ft. Lauderdale Film Festival and it was around that time that Jane's first pic as Castle (that crappy early shot from the Teaser) was released.

 

I said "Ok. This can work.". Once I saw the full trailer I knew I was right.

 

With Stevenson, I went to Blockbuster and rented both seasons of ROME and then the Unrated Cut of KING ARTHUR.

 

The guy just didn't convince me. The subject matter was too different - and he's got a VERY heavy accent.

 

OUTPOST sure didn't help.

 

So how were you guys able to jump on the Stevenson wagon so quickly Arsh?

 

And I'm hoping your answer isn't "He looks like The Punisher."

 

-TL

 

You ask how someone could embrace Ray Stevenson so fast. I have to say, when I heard that Tom Jane had been cast as Punisher for the '04 movie...my initial reaction was "WHAT THE FUCK!!!!" who is this guy, he is way to small to play the Punisher...but more important, I wondered if he could actually ACT. So, I went out and found some movies he had been in and watched them; I thought he was a pretty good actor. I still had reservations of Tom Jane in the lead role...but, since I am a HUGE fan of the Punisher I decided to give him a shot and see what he could do. I was impressed with body building that Tom Jane did...and when the movie came out I thought his performance was pretty darn good...although the movie as a whole I was kinda disappointed with. I can go over the reasons for that in another post if you would like.

 

So, why can I accept Ray Stevenson? When I first found out Tom Jane wasn't going to be in the new Punisher movie I was very disappointed. Again, being a HUGE Punisher fan I hoped that they would still find a way to make a new movie...and hopefully a BETTER movie. When the news came out that they cast Ray Stevenson...I went out and found as much info on him as I could. I rented Rome and I was thoroughly impressed. Here was a guy who has the size and he can seriously act. This gave me a lot of hope for a new film. I did the same thing when I found out that Lexi Alexander would be directing...I rented Green Street and really enjoyed what she did with it. I was very impressed that someone with the kind of martial arts background as her didn't put a bunch of "martial arts" fighting in such a violent movie...again more hope for a new movie.

 

Would I have enjoyed a sequel with Tom Jane and directed by Hensleigh...probably, after all I am a Punisher fan. I want to see a movie do justice to the comics. I think this one has that potential. Don't get me wrong...if go see this movie and it sucks...I will be back here and at IMDB voicing my opinion and my reasons why.

 

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Steve, I'm wondering if you could confirm this for me. I read a version of the script awhile back, there was a scene that involved a death by lobster, I just hated it, I thought it was too cartoony. So what I'm asking is has that been cut?

That was not in the script we shot. There is, however, lots of killing....lots!

 

 

sg,asc

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