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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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One thing is for sure guys. Ray Stephenson won't ever start a company with Tim Bradstreet and have the coolest fucking message boards on the internet like our boy Jane did, and did right.

 

Of that we can be sure.

 

Can I get a witness?

 

:lol:

 

Hey, I just got a phone call from Ray who has been lurking around in these very halls. He wants to join RAW and have his own section here on the boards.

 

 

OK, kidding.

 

But if you are lurking Ray, anytime mate, anytime.

 

Be sure to find us at Comicon on Thursday where Ray and I will be signing posters at the Marvel Booth #2429 from 3-4PM.

You must have a ticket for the event.

 

- TB

 

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Guest FADoss

I want one of those posters!!! Comicon is a bit out of my price range.

 

And ANYONE who rags on Bale...well...you haven't the slightest idea of what acting is all about and you sure can't judge talent. Plain and simple. He, Damon, Pitt and Depp are some of the best actors of our time.

 

And Mike...dour and psychotic...WHO THE HELL ELSE SHOULD PLAY BATMAN. And he has SO MUCH more the playboy billionaire look than Keaton.

 

And when he caught that crooked cop. "WHERE IS HE?!"

 

"I never knew! I swear to God!"

 

"SWEAR TO ME!"

 

SO...vicious! Amazing.

 

And the Bruce Wayne line..."You're not the devil. You're practice."

 

And oddly TL, Begins is the more REAL version of the comic booky BATMAN. So when it comes to Punisher you want REAL, but with BATMAN you want comic book? Odd...

 

Now Keaton was fantastic, BUT Bale...well Bale is another Harrison Ford. Though I don't think Ford would have done "The Machinist".

 

Fred

 

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And Mike...dour and psychotic...WHO THE HELL ELSE SHOULD PLAY BATMAN. And he has SO MUCH more the playboy billionaire look than Keaton.

 

 

Fred

 

I'm just saying it would be nice to see him play a character outside of those two ranges.

 

Honestly, no matter how 'real' they go with Batman, he's always gonna look ridiculous.

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I wouldn't go as far as calling Bale another Harrison Ford. I would love the guy to death if this was the case seeing as how Harrison Ford is my favorite actor, my idol, my inspiration, the reason why I want to be an actor. I would call Bale, Bale for now. There's nothing wrong with that. Christian Bale has taken on roles Harrison wouldn't really do, (i.e. Batman, the Machinist, the Prestige). Not that it's a bad opinion on your behalf my friend, but what about Bale reminds you of Harrison?

 

See I look at Jane as a young Harrison actually. He too has done films Harrison wouldn't do (The Punisher, Deep Blue Sea, Mutant Chronicles) but his demeanor, presence, and look reminds me more of Harrison. I think he's come closest to Harry than anyone else. Also.... Harrison didn't get his big break until Star Wars (1977). He was 35 at the time. Jane was around that age during The Punisher. Granted Jane has done a few projects before hand, but I would say that the Punisher put him on the map.

 

 

 

-Raffi

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People should just stop saying such and such an actor is going to be the next whoever. NO THEY WONT!!! Harrison is Harrison, there will NEVER be another. Bale is Bale and that's that. They are both good in their own respect but every actor is different and has their strong suits. I just think to each his own. Let's not say someone is going to be the next Harrison because to me that is disrespectful to Ford. Sorry to fly off the handle.

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Oh no Fred. Oh no.

 

Matt Damon. Brad Pitt. Christian Bale.

 

These are the men you look up to?

 

Thank God you mentioned Johnny Depp.

 

-TL

 

P.S. Christian Bale will NEVER be another Harrison Ford.

 

Well... those guys are good actors. Maybe you don't like them, but you can't say that they are talentless. I realize you're speaking to Fred on this one, but I just wanted to point it out: each of those actors has done some fantastic work.

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Arsh its okay.

 

The reason I'm buggin Fred about it is that he's currently attempting a career in action and those guys (regardless of their one time good roles) are all terrible role models for action.

 

Unless the action being attempted is pretty boy SOFT action.

 

Action I don't do,

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss

Yes. We should all worship great actors like Dolph Lundgren and Kevin Nash.

 

And name 3 different characters Ford has ever done. He's a VERY good actor, but he's always pretty much Harrison. Much like Willis and Nicholson and Eastwood. Bale is like that. He's always the same guy , but he's DAMNED good at it.

 

Fred

 

 

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Guest AdminGuyX

Fred, you haven't seen enough Bale flicks then.

 

The tortured and weary leader he plays in Reign of Fire is a much different character than say . . . the guy he plays in Laurel Canyon.

 

The shellshocked asshole he portrays in Harsh Times is much different than the clerick of Equilibrium.

 

Rolfe from The New World versus Trevor from The Machinist? Not even close brother.

 

I also think comparison is pointless. Different people . . . different actors . . . that's a GOOD thing.

 

TL, I do think there is a big difference between action stars, and actors who do action films from time to time. Damon, Pitt, those guys are actors. I believe a distinction needs to be made there.

 

Guys, we're off the tracks, tearing up dirt, heading for a small suburb . . .

 

Lets get back to PUNISHER WAR ZONE if at all possible. For better or worse. B)

 

Such as . . . I watched the trailer again today. Why? Well because it's growing on me, but also, it's been nagging me, BADLY where I'd seen this style of lighting before. As soon as I watched the trailer, I thought "Damn, that style of lighting looks SO damn familiar."

 

I was flipping channels tonight and landed on CSI:Miami and it all clicked.

 

The lighting style in WarZone is exactly the same as CSI:Miami, amped up, more vibrant, but it's spot on.

 

Ain't that a bitch.

 

:)

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Fred, I just think you shouldn't disregard the physical aspects of action so much.

 

The majority of the male audience (and this is a lesson in history) will much rather follow the bigger/stronger hero than the pretty boy that couldn't knock out a muppet.

 

Harrison Ford did 500 situps every morning for 20 years and benched up to 315 at one point. He was never lanky in his prime.

 

If a hero's gonna be stylish, he oughtta have some muscle under the thousand dollar suits and hundred dollar haircut.

 

Look at Daniel Craig's take on Bond - muscle and sex appeal in one package.

 

-TL

 

P.S. Noeland, I think you and Street give Bale WAYYYY too much credit.

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3 different roles Harrison did?

 

 

What Lies Beneath - Dr. Norman Spencer....... He played the dramatic Harrison Ford role at first until he turned the tables and became the bad guy nobody expected to see from Ford

 

K19: The Widowmaker - Alexei Vostrikov..... He played a Russian for a change. A U-Boat captain who only does shit his way and he's a prick about it which is cool to see from him. Kind of a boring movie though.

 

6 Days, 7 Nights - Quinn Harris..... The 3rd comedy he's ever done, kind of the same guy in the sense that he ends up a hero and kicks ass. Different in how he has a sense of humor up to date and perverse if you will. It's a bit different. Also when he started to buy planes.

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Fuck it, let's ride the wave . . .

 

Uh, Fred . . . Nicholson is always pretty much Nicholson?

I could spend three hours trying to explain to you how that statement makes not a lick of sense.

What are you seeing when you watch these films? Or have you yet to discover Five Easy Pieces, The Last Detail, Chinatown, The Shining, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Carnal Knowledge, Ironweed, The Crossing Guard, The Pledge, Missouri Breaks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I'm seriously curious. I'm not trying to take a piss on you. I'm genuinely wondering what you are seeing in a performance that could make you believe what you are implying.

 

On this level I agree with you, but it's not going to back up your statement.

Jack is always Jack because he's fucking Jack Nicholson.

Gary Oldman is always Gary Oldman because he lives inside the skin of Gary Oldman.

Laurence Olivier, Daniel Day Lewis, Sir Ian McKellen . . . It doesn't matter how good they are as actors. No matter what their method, no matter how much talent, they are still going to put something from themselves into a part. In a sense then all actors and actresses are forever playing themselves. But this thought has absolutely no sense of nuance. Somehow you are making a broad generalization in terms of how you, personally, see Jack. Look at Clint Eastwood in Honkeytonk Man, then watch Tightrope, then Unforgiven, and finally The Bridges of Madison County. Clint has a subtle way, but his performances are actually very diverse if you forget that he's an icon known for a certain type of character portrayal. What you imply is easy to say. And it surprises me that you, a guy that wants to work in this field and make some hay doesn't see that. You seem only to be seeing the surface and acting is about so much more.

 

I've spent a lot of time studying the art and technique myself. Some of my best friends in college were wonderful actors and I spent a ton of time around the Illinois Shakespeare Festival for four years. I've been lucky enough to see some pretty amazing actors in real movies work at their craft up close as well. I spend all kinds of time hanging out with my wife and her theater group MOXIE here in San Diego. The entire process rivets me and I have a deep appreciation for the skill involved. I'm only saying this so you don't think I'm commenting on your art without some kind of knowledge about what it takes to create it.

 

As a friend I say look deeper.

 

- TB

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Tim my friend - You just saved me from carpal tunnel for the most part. Thanks.

 

I don't think you could have made a better statement then that in dealing with the depth of an actor, character, and person. Thanks buddy.

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Guest FADoss

Gary Oldman is NEVER the same guy twice. Nor is Depp. Pitt is actually pretty good at this too.

 

And Noeland, I've seen all of the above films.

 

You guys are failing to give me enough credit because we disagree. Sure there are subtle nuances are present in each of Jack, Christian and Harrison's roles, but for the most part it's "the guy". They don't appear to completely lose themselves in a role. I don't either, so I don't mean this to be harsh criticism. Maybe that's why everyone is so argumentative over this. They perceive it as negative.

 

Looking at another thread, Heath Ledger was an amazing actor and another chameleon actor. So is Daniel Day Lewis. Tom Hanks is there. I mean, they find a walk, a voice, ticks, mannerisms and they become someone different. Harrison is pretty much Harrison with a whip or Harrison with a blaster. But Harrison is a REALLY cool guy so it's cool. He's an iconic actor and a great actor, because even being YOU on stage or in front of a camera is hard as hell!

 

Fred

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You guys are failing to give me enough credit because we disagree. Sure there are subtle nuances are present in each of Jack, Christian and Harrison's roles, but for the most part it's "the guy". They don't appear to completely lose themselves in a role.

 

And it's this statement that smokes you Fred. My major objection is that you have Jack Nicholson lumped in with these guys. It's hardly worth making a case for the other two since accents (good or bad) or varying dramatic and action roles are not enough to sway you from your position. But Jack Nicholson has proved his mettle in countless films and a wide variety of characterizations. He's the exception to the rule, a leading man who is also a character actor. Robert Dupea in Five Easy Pieces is diametrically different than his devilish turn in The Witches of Eastwick. Take Nicholson's portrayal as a dirty, uncouth, southern outlaw rogue in Goin' South and then watch the subtle, tragic hollow man he becomes in The Pledge. There are literally a dozen examples of this in his career. I am disagreeing with you yes Fred, because I think you need to watch and absorb more of his performances before you make a case for Jack only repeatedly playing himself. I believe that opinion is based on the few films you've seen and not the breadth of his larger body of work, so no, I'm not giving you enough credit because I don't honestly think your research is complete, despite your earnestness. At the end of the day you are going to believe what you choose/want to believe. That's your right as an individual. But about a billion (intentional overestimation) other actors would strongly disagree with you just as I am.

 

(sorry, I snipped the front end of this) I don't either, so I don't mean this to be harsh criticism. Maybe that's why everyone is so argumentative over this. They perceive it as negative.

 

Fred

 

It's not a harsh criticism Fred (unless Jack is reading), but good God, you have to realize that you are relegating a superior actor to the level of one-trick pony.

A one-trick pony that has been nominated for an acting Oscar in five different decades. Bale has never been nominated and Ford was nominated once. If you put any kind of stock in that.

 

That's all I got.

Good morning everyone ;)

 

- TB

 

 

Fred

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Guest AdminGuyX
You guys are failing to give me enough credit because we disagree.

 

Well, you have stated before that you don't really like to watch older movies Fred. You've been pretty open about not seeing any Peckinpah films, etc, and quite frankly I don't really understand how you can lump in certain performances from certain actors as "that guy" with a limited view of their work.

 

And Noeland, I've seen all of the above films.

 

SO, you're saying you feel that Bale's characters in all those films are "that guy" ???? Really?

 

Because if you are, I think you're crazy brother.

 

Noeland, I think you and Street give Bale WAYYYY too much credit.

 

Why is that? What has he done that makes him undeserving exactly? I think he's a class act, a first rate actor, and has been since Empire of The Sun.

 

I always figured you'd have more respect for Bale than you do, honestly. I guess it makes us even. Bale is a martial artist and a dancer, he's a body builder. He's a disciplined human being who is also reputed to be incredibly kind to everyone he works with be from a PA to an EP.

 

TL, buddy, please tell me you are able to appreciate more than a human beings ability to intimidate other human beings and to be able to make you feel, personally that they can kick your ass.

 

You've made some comments in this thread that make me wonder if you can see past this kind of stuff. Sure, Matt Damon might not be able to kill you 7 ways in real life, but that doesn't mean he's a shitty actor. (and that was really the whole point of Bourne anyway, that he appeared to be anybody on the street and didn't stand out as a lethal weapon was his greatest asset)

 

Gary Oldman is NEVER the same guy twice. Nor is Depp. Pitt is actually pretty good at this too.

 

So, we ARE talking about newer films and actors then? Or am I missing it? Are there any actors who made films in say, 1950 that you appreciate?

 

1960?

 

Do you see my point? You are drawn to younger actors, and there is nothing wrong with that. The old guard just isn't your bag, and maybe that's how it should be. I mean, to say Nicholson is the same guy over and over, I can see your point because in the last 15 years he hasn't stretched much as an artist. The last 10 - 15 years, Ford has been playing on his persona and cashing checks.

 

Anyway, perhaps I'm not making my point clearly enough.

 

I'm talking about whether or not I believe actors have the ability and the skills to become someone else in a performance, not if they do it with every performance we see.

 

Fred, whether you believe it or not, you do have that ability. I've seen your process up close, and you've got wells of talent you're not tapping into. You just need to find your trigger so you can control it's effects on you to a greater degree. But it's there.

 

then watch the subtle, tragic hollow man he becomes in The Pledge.

 

I just wanted to add that The Pledge is one of my favorite films. It surprised me in just about every way. I didn't see it coming. It was really the film that made me see that Sean Penn might be a better director than actor, and that Jack still has the old magic in spades. Their previous effort, The Crossing Guard, doesn't even compare IMHO.

 

 

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Noeland that was an excellent post and you bring up great points.

 

Its pretty obvious Fred prefers modern day cinema. I personally think where he to appreciate films from an older time he'd be less critical of Hensleigh's Punisher.

 

You yourself have already stated how you feel Warzone will probably not end up being superior to The Punisher.

 

Now, I like that you hit me with the whole "You gotta appreciate the acting these guys do (Pitt/Damon/Bale) and not just their failed attempts at action."

 

I do. And the reason I was actually makin them sound shitty, was that I was talking action only.

 

Let me quote myself:

 

"The reason I'm buggin Fred about it is that he's currently attempting a career in action and those guys (regardless of their one time good roles) are all terrible role models for action. Unless the action being attempted is pretty boy SOFT action. Action I don't do."

 

Even though I'm not impressed with Bale's career as an action star, I do enjoy him in dramas. Rescue Dawn is a good example. A very interesting POW story co-starring Steve Zahn. Rent it.

 

I love dramas as much as I love action movies and crime-dramas.

 

I feel some actors are just more suitable in certain genres.

 

I thought Damon was great in The Rainmaker, The Departed, The Good Shepherd...DRAMAS.

 

I thought Pitt was great in Seven, Fight Club, Babel...DRAMAS.

 

The roles they played in those films were not about intimidation. They were about emotion, dialogue and depth. They were "actors" in these films, not action heroes.

 

I believe Fred considers these "actors" to be action heroes. When in fact, as you mentioned earlier Noeland - they are actors. To some being an "actor" is better than being an action hero. I feel more respect goes to the actor and more glory goes to the action hero.

 

-TL

 

*Jack Nicholson's best film is...All his films. He's an actor capable of being versatile and mastering each individual role as well as the next one.

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Guest FADoss

There are a lot of movies out there I still need to see (I LOVED "The Wild Bunch" by the way).

 

Perhaps I do need to see more Nicholson films, but I can guarantee that he hasn't done anything NEW in the past 10 years. It's just Nicholson with different quirks. That doesn't mean he's a bad actor!!! Doesn't mean he's not a GREAT actor. I'm positive I'm just being unclear. Jim Varney was a one trick pony...Pauly Shore is a one trick pony. Nicholson is a very believable actor with a lot of charisma. What he's good at, there is a shortage of out there. Much like Morgan Freeman.

 

Bale does the same thing. Believable guy. GREAT actor, but pretty much Bale in every movie. He doesn't disappear into the role. It will actually be better for his career I think that he doesn't. Now the thing with Bale is that I think he could.

 

I guess the thing is that neither Nicholson or Ford have surprised me.

 

And TL, I was truly happy when action started to gain plot and thought. Where any muscle bound martial arts guru with an accent couldn't just make a film and call it good. I much prefer the Janes, Damons and Whalbergs to the Segals, Van Dammes and Schwarzeneggers...oh and Lundgren.

 

Fred

 

 

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This conversation is getting boring.

 

If any actor has been getting work for more than a couple of decades, you gotta figure they have something enough folks out there find worth looking at. Just because Varney happened upon a way to make some cash before the cancer sticks got him is no reason to piss on the guy.

 

There are several actors I'm not particularly fond of, and wonder why so many other folks seem to like them. But I try not to cut them off at the knees. You never know what someone can do in the right role with a good director. Right?

 

Sorry for the vent. It's just getting old.

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