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The Punisher: WarZone


Tim Bradstreet
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Well, it's not the only posting in this thread so much as the missing out part that I think about.

 

I certainly don't think you should feel that you can't get involved in some of the other discussions simply because this thread is what brought you here.

 

In fact, you should feel free to start discussions in other areas of the forum if you have a subject you want to chat about.

 

:)

 

 

 

 

Right on Noe - I love it!

 

And to shed more light on the obscure Gene Pitney/Joe Jusko/Liberty Valence references . . . . Read This ;)

 

- TB

 

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Well the reviewer isn't saying anything that will keep most Punisher fans from seeing Warzone.

In fact, I think he touched on several things that confirm what a lot of the fans DO want to see.

 

If you think this is a bad review, go check out some of the Punisher '04 reviews.

It got KILLED from day one by critics. In April of '04, finding a good review for the film was like finding a nun in a room full of hookers.

A lot of fans aren't really going to care whether the story or the script is good or not.

As long as Castle is canceling bad guys left and right, Max style, there will be cheers coming from the audience.

 

Sometimes bad accents bug the shit out of me. Keanu in Dangerous Liaisons, Keanu in Bram Stoker's Dracula (and many more examples by actors who's first names aren't Keanu ;)

But I don't think it will bother me so much in a film like Warzone. There is no mistaking West's "Goombah shtick" but I never really detected too much English accent or Irish lilt by the leads from abroad judging from the trailers.

 

Yeah, nothing shocking here. Pretty much what I was expecting to hear from critics.

There will be good reviews too.

 

- TB

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Not surprising at all, critics hate this movie. I'm actually surprised he knew the 89' one existed.

 

I think that's kind of dumb to say, why would critics hate this movie? Is it because it's violent? Take Roger Ebert, a well respect film critic, and he likes a good zombie movie and loved The Devil's Rejects. Simply put if they think it's bad they'll say so, and vice versa.

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Most of the critics don't like revenge films like this. Go look up reviews for vigilante type films, or brutally violent films. As for Roger Ebert, I don't care for his reviews because he just doesn't really make sense. He has given plenty of horrible movies thumbs up or a good score. He gave the Hitman movie 3 out of 4 stars, for example, and he has given actual good movies lower then that. He gave the '04 Punisher 2 stars, which was much better then Hitman.

 

As for the review, the author may not have even have seen the film yet. I never heard of any screenings for the press, and I believe the first screening is on December 1st or something, right?

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Hard to read Simon Blaire as a reviewer. What I saw on the site was, he hated DEATH RACE and thought JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH was "ok". I didn't hate death race but it was not good, that's for sure. And I agree JOURNEY was "OK" and that's about all you can saw about it.

 

So it is hard to tell if he is a comic to movie hater? Or just love those english subtitled norwegian romance movies.

 

I did like some of the things he pointed out in his article, and I may just actually like some of this flick...one way or the other I'll be in a seat on opening day so I can at least be a 1st hand witness to the mayhem and destruction at the BRADSTREET HOTEL ;)

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Most of the critics don't like revenge films like this. Go look up reviews for vigilante type films, or brutally violent films. As for Roger Ebert, I don't care for his reviews because he just doesn't really make sense. He has given plenty of horrible movies thumbs up or a good score. He gave the Hitman movie 3 out of 4 stars, for example, and he has given actual good movies lower then that. He gave the '04 Punisher 2 stars, which was much better then Hitman.

 

I think it just comes down to the movie being actually well written and directed and having good performances, saying because it is a violent revenge film, critics are gonna pan it is just making an excuse.

 

Oldboy, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, Lady Vengeance, Once Upon a Time in the West, Dead Man's Shoes, Straw Dogs, Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2, Payback, Desperado, Get Carter ('71) all revenge movies that got fairly good to great reviews.

 

Oh and Rolling Thunder.

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I think that's kind of dumb to say, why would critics hate this movie? Is it because it's violent? Take Roger Ebert, a well respect film critic, and he likes a good zombie movie and loved The Devil's Rejects. Simply put if they think it's bad they'll say so, and vice versa.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying Mike but I wouldn't say Justaguy's comment was all that dumb. Certainly there are critics out there who are able to be fair, taking into consideration what a certain film was shooting for. But it seems to me more often then not, critics who are considered to be knowledgeable or respected, ie, critics who work for major newspapers or other wide reaching media, tend to look at this kind of action film as lowbrow entertainment. As such, they have the tendency to unfairly judge genre material. Maybe their criteria is out of whack or they aren't in touch with the audience the film was geared towards. You know it happens. Not in every case but as I mentioned, more often than not.

 

I'm sure Irish can attest to some of our favorite films ever being blasted by critics for being lowbrow or non character driven, or even outright dreck.

Highlander, one of my favorite films, critics hated it. Bladerunner likewise was considered very pretty to look out but nothing of substance (HA!), Escape From NY got knocked about too. When I was younger I could never pay any attention to reviews because in too many cases I found that I loved most of the stuff that these "knowledgeable" and "respected" critics thought was shit. I wasn't reading many newspapers when Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey was released but it's common knowledge (and easy to look up) that it was considered a failure of monumental proportions by a lot of very respected critics. All of which have likely recanted their initial viewpoints.

 

I have this book, it's a bible of movies on vid. It's been coming out since the mid-eighties, annually. I was thumbing through and old copy from like '87 recently and noted the reviewer gave Bladerunner 1.5 stars. The entry he wrote up was ugly. He despised the film. Then I skip ahead to another volume/different year ('95) of this book and the same reviewer has CHANGED his review to make it sound like he had always loved it and had defended it, that it was a modern classic of dystopian Sci-Fi. Give me a fucking break.

 

These days I care a hulluva lot more about plot, story, and narrative, but occasionally I don't mind being a kid again.

 

Critics are like anyone else, it's just their opinion, oft times a learned one, but still just their opinion. Not really any more valid than yours or mine in terms of how you respond to film.

 

- TB

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I get that, and the post above yours it's really what I should have initially posted. But it's more just saying because it is a violent revenge film critics will hate it. It seems just like an excuse even before the film comes out, just like the movie because you like it for what ever reason. I mean I liked and own Deep Rising on DVD (I am a Kevin J. O'Connor completest so...), I don't make any excuses for liking it regardless of the reviews it got.

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There are going to be good reviews and bad reviews of Lexi Alexander’s upcoming Punisher: War Zone (05 Dec). It’s an action film with a fair amount of violence with its source in comic books…certainly not everyone’s cup of tea. Punisher: War Zone will have to abide by those reviews, whatever they are. But no one should have to abide by a FALSE review. From what I can tell, the “review” by Simon Blaire at newsarama.com appears to be one such false “review.”

 

As many of you may have earlier concluded, I have several inside sources on this film. Yes, there they are again, those infamous “insiders.” It’s beautiful! None of them knows who the others are! It drives them crazy! So my phone and DSL lines have been zinging all morning as I try to piece all this together.

 

I think we can approach this on two fronts: the UN-likelihood of Mr Blaire having actually seen the film based on what I’ve discovered this morning, and then on a closer look at what his “review” does or does NOT say.

 

Here’s what I have so far on the GREAT UN-likelihood that Simon Blaire has actually seen Punisher: War Zone.

 

1) No one at Lion’s Gate, including the president of marketing, knows how Mr Blaire would have seen the film.

 

2) The copies are so protected, not even the FBI would be able to get a copy right now.

 

3) I’m told not even the director has a copy.

 

4) Ray Stevenson’s agent was denied a showing of the film at the agency, and had to go to Lion’s Gate to see it.

 

5) As yet, there have been no screenings for the press or critics.

 

I’ve never heard of Simon Blaire before, nor do I know of anyone who has, but he would have to be AWFULLY important and AWFULLY well-connected to have screened Punisher: War Zone. Ray Stevenson hasn’t even seen it yet, and he’s right here in town for the premiere on 01 December!

 

Now on to the actual “review.”

 

No where does Simon Blaire actually SAY he saw the film. But he’s quite clever in implying that he has. In actual fact, he says nothing that can’t be pieced together by looking at all the teasers, trailers and television ads with perhaps a reading of one of the early script versions that are floating around. He may even have a copy of the shooting script.

 

There is one GLARING omission from his “review” that I find quite telling. This film has a VERY distinctive look in terms of lighting and color. Lexi Alexander and Director of Photography Steve Gainer collaborated beautifully to achieve that look. Strangely, Simon Blaire never once mentions the look of the film. This is a VERY odd omission. In fact, Mr Blaire seems not to have noticed ONE visual in his review that can’t be inferred from another source.

 

Take this, for example:

 

Whereas the last Punisher movie was set in Tampa, this one takes place in New York City (although not much appears to have actually been shot here). There isn't a palm tree in sight.

 

Anyone can look at the filming locations on IMDb to see where it was filmed and, sure enough, there are very few palm trees in Quebec, Canada! Nor in Vancouver, Canada! Yet, Mr Blair seems to imply the “sight” in which there are no palm trees was within HIS sight. Hardly.

 

And on accents:

 

…when Stevenson does finally talk, you realize why we were getting the silent treatment. He can’t hide his Irish accent! It pops in and out to the point of distraction.

 

It’s well-known that Ray Stevenson, though born in Northern Ireland, left at the age of 8 to be raised in the Newcastle area of north-eastern England. Ray Stevenson has a lovely and proper British accent with a bit of Geordie that creeps in now and again. He does not now, nor has he ever had, an Irish accent of any sort! As proof of Ray Stevenson’s accent, I offer this video interview from the set of Punisher: War Zone last year:

 

http://www.blackfilm.com/20081113/features/punisherspecial_interviewra y.shtml://http://www.blackfilm.com/20081113/f...viewra y.shtml

 

And another:

 

As Jigsaw, West - a Brit - fares even worse than Stevenson at hiding his accent. Either his agent has a great sales pitch or the casting director of War Zone really likes “The Wire.” Why else would you cast an English actor who can’t disguise his accent for such a distinct role as a New York crime lord?

 

Here, Blaire makes his own case that his statement is inherently false. He accuses West of having a poor accent while at the same time crediting him with his five years on The Wire! Is there anyone here who thinks a classically trained actor such as Dominic West incapable of an American accent after five YEARS of The Wire?

 

Moreover, I learned from one of my sources that Punisher: War Zone had no fewer than TWENTY “accent nazis” on the film, all of whom signed off on it with kudos to both Ray Stevenson and Dominic West.

 

The rest of the “review” is nothing more than what may be inferred from material other than the actual film. I am in complete agreement with Mr Wayne Kerr who posted this on newsarama.com in response to Mr Blaire’s “review:”

 

WayneKerr wrote:

 

Wow. Unless 'reviewer' Simon Blaire outs the person who got him a copy of Punisher War Zone, I'm calling bullsh*t, because this movie has not yet screened for the press and security has been tighter than a duck's bumhole.

 

99% of his review could be gleaned from the various early drafts of the script floating round the Internet, and the remainder are only educated guesses based on what is known. One such "educated guess" is in fact quite uneducated. Though the press publicly states Ray Stevenson was born in Ireland, he has not lived there in over 30 years and doesn't speak with an Irish accent in any case. Sounds to me like Mr Blaire just wanted to be "first" to review the film and has blatantly lied to call himself such.

 

In other words, disregard this review. Wait till a real one comes out. That won't happen for days yet.

 

Nomad

 

 

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As Jigsaw, West - a Brit - fares even worse than Stevenson at hiding his accent. Either his agent has a great sales pitch or the casting director of War Zone really likes “The Wire.” Why else would you cast an English actor who can’t disguise his accent for such a distinct role as a New York crime lord?

 

Here, Blaire makes his own case that his statement is inherently false. He accuses West of having a poor accent while at the same time crediting him with his five years on The Wire! Is there anyone here who thinks a classically trained actor such as Dominic West incapable of an American accent after five YEARS of The Wire?

 

Regardless if it's real or not, from what the little I have heard of West's Goombah accent it is fairly atrocious. But it is suspect to say his English accent slips through.

 

It would be funny if it was true about the accents though, because it seems that both of Alexander's films have main characters that apparently have trouble sustaining accents (Charlie Hunnam in Green Street Hooligans).

 

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I'm not too big on critics, in the end it's all a mater of opinion (if only I could get paid to see flicks and spout off about them ;) ) I'm going to see Punisher no mater what because of the character. There are other reasons, but the main reason is that Frank in on celluloid again. Weather it's good or bad, I'm not too concerned about at the moment (although I'm really hopeing it kicks ass) all I'm looking forward to taking in a double bill of Gran Torino and Punisher with my brothers. Both are in the service, so getting all three of us together is always fun, plus it's Clint and Frank Castle all in the same day!

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Yeah, it's all just opinion. It's the thin excuses for bad reviews that bug me.

 

I hear you there. Like it's been said before, I hate when a film to slamed for doing what it set out to do. I think it was Sin City where I read a review that really tore it apart for trying to look like a comic book. All I could think was "Do your research!"

 

I don't think Warzone is going to fair well by critics because it has two strikes against it.

1. It's an action film

2. It's based on a comic book

 

Granted we are seeing a whole new level of comic book films, but try telling that to the masses.

 

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I would wish there would BE no bad reviews, but that is an unrealistic wish. I will NOT tolerate, however, LYING reviews, representing that the critic has seen the film when he has NOT.

 

I am SO fucking mad about this, I could...well, never mind that. I'll take a pill instead! :P

 

Nomad

 

 

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I hear you there. Like it's been said before, I hate when a film to slamed for doing what it set out to do. I think it was Sin City where I read a review that really tore it apart for trying to look like a comic book. All I could think was "Do your research!"

 

I don't think Warzone is going to fair well by critics because it has two strikes against it.

1. It's an action film

2. It's based on a comic book

 

Granted we are seeing a whole new level of comic book films, but try telling that to the masses.

 

I was actually more talking about what justaguy was saying about critics not going to like it because it is a revenge/action movie. It's not really a true statement, and just comes of as more of an excuse.

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I'm sure Irish can attest to some of our favorite films ever being blasted by critics for being lowbrow or non character driven, or even outright dreck.

 

I have this book, it's a bible of movies on vid. It's been coming out since the mid-eighties, annually. I was thumbing through and old copy from like '87 recently and noted the reviewer gave Bladerunner 1.5 stars. The entry he wrote up was ugly. He despised the film. Then I skip ahead to another volume/different year ('95) of this book and the same reviewer has CHANGED his review to make it sound like he had always loved it and had defended it, that it was a modern classic of dystopian Sci-Fi. Give me a fucking break.

 

These days I care a hulluva lot more about plot, story, and narrative, but occasionally I don't mind being a kid again.

 

Critics are like anyone else, it's just their opinion, oft times a learned one, but still just their opinion. Not really any more valid than yours or mine in terms of how you respond to film.

 

- TB

 

Well spoken TB, yeah, critics have never given much love to movies I adore...oh fucking well! I still adore them and years later they are trying to kiss pop culture ass by all of a sudden calling them "wonderful classics " and shit like that.

 

I tried giving up reading movie reviews years ago but found I got some kind of sick pleasure out of the thought that they had to actually watch a movie like PORKY'S REVENGE to comment on it. (sorry, but I laugh my ass off every time I watch that stupid fucking movie, Porky's 1 & 2 for that matter... probably proves I'm lowbrow trash!)

 

Today more than ever the old saying "Everybody is a critic!" is true. I'll watch PWZ the morning it opens and have at least posted a couple of opinions my self by dinner. Like Tim said, it really is all opinion.

 

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I'm not trying to make excuses, Mike. If this movie sucks, it will suck. The majority of reviews I have seen about most of these kinds of movies have been pretty bad. A lot of critics walk into these kinds of movies wanting to hate them. Take the 2004 Punisher movie for example. It has 28% freshness at rottentomatoes.com. The movie had its flaws, but I take that score to be a bit harsh.

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I'm not trying to make excuses, Mike. If this movie sucks, it will suck. The majority of reviews I have seen about most of these kinds of movies have been pretty bad. A lot of critics walk into these kinds of movies wanting to hate them. Take the 2004 Punisher movie for example. It has 28% freshness at rottentomatoes.com. The movie had its flaws, but I take that score to be a bit harsh.

 

I don't think any reviewers, especially ones that claim to love film go into any type of movie wanting to hate it. The reason why a lot of violent revenge/vigilante movies get bad reviews is because they are probably dumb.

 

Again here's a list of a few that have gotten good to great reviews.

 

Oldboy, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, Lady Vengeance, Once Upon a Time in the West, Dead Man's Shoes, Straw Dogs, Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2, Payback, Desperado, Get Carter ('71), Rolling Thunder, Taxi Driver.

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