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The Punisher: WarZone


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This is just dumb. Why would you not watch an actor because of A fan that the dude doesn't probably even know exists...

 

I'll take TL's borderline irrational hatred of War Zone over this kind of illogical and childish nonsense any day.

 

That's fine, Fred. You're entitled to your opinion. Maybe it's just the baggage I carry. I've had enough experience with people who are so sweetly patronizing, while all the time they're squatting to take a dump on the carpet. I'm speaking figuratively, of course. No one would think of doing that when they come into your home, but they might when they enter your life, and they don't seem to have any qualms about it when they enter someone's message board.

 

Truth is, I don't think I can watch Ray Stevenson without my thoughts being polluted by some of the posts in here by his adoring fans. I'm sure Ray will be fine. One less person watching his movies won't break the bank.

 

k-skye

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The way I see it, of all the places to come sell the Ray Stevenson product - why pick RAW?

 

Because Thomas Jane runs it?

 

Because its a Board with SOME intelligence as opposed to IMDB?

 

Its always good to have somebody to talk shop with, but not if they're bible salesmen.

 

That conversation is usually one-sided.

 

-TL

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I can't stand the 1989 movie.

Recently however, I acquired the Work Print of that movie as part of a limited special edition released in Germany.

 

To my utter shock, the workp rint was...watchable. There is no way it can be what I consider "good", but it certainly was a hell of a lot better than the theathrical cut.

 

Louis Gosset Jr. has a MUCH bigger part in it, we get to see Castle's pre-Punisher life and exactly who killed his family, more charater developing scenes throuout the movie, and the ending is a hundred times as good as the theatrical one. And best of all, the scene of him sitting naked in sewer lasts maybe three seconds tops, and there are NO schizoprhenic monologues where he is talking to god. As such, the Work Print Lundgren Punisher doesn't come off as batshit insane, at least not merely as much.

 

It would seem that the 89' Punisher was screwed up by the studio during the editing process even worse than the theatrical cuts of Daredevil and The Punisher '04 combined. I worry about how much War Zone is going to get screwed up in the editing too. Fingers crossed for a directors cut on Blu-ray and DVD.

I wish I could see it.The 89 film wasn't too bad,it had alot good action in it.But it just felt too rush,and now I know why (Thanks to you Sage:))it was because the damn studio mess it up.(Even though if the studio didn't screwed the editing,they still miss the mark on his orgin)I don't think we have to worry about PWZ,because we all know that LionGate always release a Director's cut DVD.Plus it's LionGate,I won't be surprise if they do the double dip thing they always do(Like with the Saw movies,Rambo 4,2001 Maniacs etc:)

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Well this thread is damn entertaining. Question is, what will we do with ourselves once the damn film comes and goes?

 

The problem is how things get out of hand and blown around and facts get distorted to support whatever argument someone is trying to make.

 

I didn't leave over Walter Hill. I left because I saw in Castle a true tragic figure in fiction, and I loved the guy and I wanted HIS STORY to be told in a realistic manner that is fitting the tale. Like Taxi Driver. Like Dog Day Afternoon. Like fuckin SERPICO, with some Death Wish mixed in and yeah it's an action film and yeah it's a comic book but I think the way to keep comic book films alive is to treat them with the respect that the stories deserve. And look out! A guy named Nolan does just that a year later and look what happens.

 

I went to LGF with a BAG of dvd's. Thirty or Forty. Big meeting with everyone from MARVEL and LGF there. And I laid them on the table. All gritty urban crime dramas and action films. You all know the ones. And I said this is what we want to see with P2. I even outlined a simple story where we had a female FBI agent working on bringing down a mob family for three years, doing wiretaps and collecting evidence, and on the big night of the bust, FC walks in and kills every one of them in three minutes. Job done. And this chick, she's like who the FUCK is this asshole? Three years down the drain in three minutes by some joker with a skull on his chest? No fucking way. And she goes to her boss and says I WANT FRANK CASTLE. He's an affront to the System. This is a girl who had to do everything by the book just to get where she is, loves her job and believes in it, but is kinda feeling that 'glass ceiling' that women sometimes hit in a man's world. She's had to have all the T's crossed and I's dotted to make it, and FC just pisses her off to no end. She goes after him, and she CATCHES him. Locks him up. Job done. But at the same time, the MOB goes after her, and kidnaps her kid (this was Jigsaw and his men.) They are gonna kill the kid. No time for 'by the book.' So she goes to castle in lock up. She looks at him and he looks at her. And she leaves the key on the floor and walks out. And castle destroys every last one of them.

 

that was the story in a nutshell. I wasn't hung up on that story in particular, just something with some emotion and balls and speaks to the fact that love him or hate him Frank Castle does what he does so we don't have to. He's a necessary evil, because he's the only guy in town who's willing to live with the heinous fucking shit that sometimes has got to be done. Everyone nodded their heads and we talked for an hour about bringing back the Great Urban Crime Film. Problem was, no one could write it. We went through so many drafts. I even worked with Ennis on an outline. But LGF could not get away from the Comic Book Film. It was very light and the characters were just superficial. Sutter did professional work. Great guy, trying to give the studio what they wanted. Like him a lot. But when it became obvious that LGF wasn't interested in developing that KIND of story, and frankly weren't interested in spending the cash on a good script, I said guys, I just can't do this to the character I love. Can't live with it. Can't make the 'would have been great if' movie of frank one more time. This is me speaking from the heart, and not trying to be PC here. So I walked away and I sent an open letter to Quint at ain't it cool outlining my feelings on the thing. I'm sure you can look it up. THEN LGF got another director. THEN the 'reboot' stuff. Makes sense to reboot after the actor walks, right?

 

Bradstreet is right - when I say 'piece of crap' that's just me talking. Hey, might be a masterpiece from someone else's POV. I guess if I wanted to be polite I could say 'not my cup 'o tea.' But then that wouldn't be me talking, would it.

 

After seeing Michael Keaton in Desperate Measures and Pacific Heights, I know he woulda been an AMAZING and very serious Jigsaw.

 

Honestly Warzone just fails in sooo many levels.

 

-TL

 

 

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God, this thread has taken so many twists and turns since the last time i posted, I almost feel like it should be broken down and turned into multiple threads ;)

 

So, I'm not even going to bother addressing any of the topics. However, after reading Tom Jane's last post, it got me thinking and considering everyone posting in this thread seems to have a specific movie in mind that they'd like to see, I want to pose a challenge to all of you. Describe your perfect punisher movie. Don't just say it would be LIKE this or LIKE that. Hash out a basic plot like Jane did.

 

If this sounds stupid, don't do it, but considering the varying personalities in here, I think it'd make for an interesting few posts.

 

I'll post mine up in a bit.

 

 

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WHERE is the official statement from LGF on Lexi's return?

I've been told by one of those infamous "insiders" that LGF has chosen simply to ignore the internet realising, as they do, that although the fan boys live on the 'net, most people who will see the film do not and will be blissfully unaware of any rumors and bad internet PR since Comic-Con. So a staterment of any kind commenting on the internet rumors is highly UNlikely. Moreover, they have chosen to behave as if Lexi never left.

 

And who's to say they're wrong to ignore the net? I'm still getting Google Alerts about Comic-Con, and these are from internet bloggers who attended the event but are just now, a month later, blogging it. And they seem unaware, for the most part, of any of the subsequent rumors and bad PR. So even internet savvy folks aren't feeling any need to hear from LGF on Lexi's status.

 

WHY is Lexi's blog STILL after a month stripped of any Warzone related material?

It's unclear whether Lexi was compelled to remove all references to PWZ or whether she did so as a silent communication on her feelings about being under an NDA. Either way, you will likely NOT see anything about PWZ coming from Lexi. Though active in the post-production process, she's essentially been gagged.

 

Nomad

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Thomas>> I just looked over your post asking about for a release from LGF about Lexi and all that. When has a studio ever issued a press release to address internet rumors?

 

Steve Gainer came on here and specifically addressed this, but it's like you don't WANT to believe it.

 

Really though, who cares? If she's on the movie or not, you've made up your mind about this movie, and you did so a long time ago, is any of this going to change that?

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Steve came here to say Lexi was "involved" in post.

 

That's it.

 

Does it mean she's back on the film?

 

Not necessarily.

 

What woulda backed up the idea of Lexi being back alltogether was her blog going back to normal.

 

This wasn't a 2 day argument.

 

Its been over a month now.

 

She's clearly out.

 

-TL

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Steve came here to say Lexi was "involved" in post.

 

That's it.

 

Does it mean she's back on the film?

 

Not necessarily.

 

What woulda backed up the idea of Lexi being back alltogether was her blog going back to normal.

 

This wasn't a 2 day argument.

 

Its been over a month now.

 

She's clearly out.

 

-TL

*yawn*

 

Whatever you say, Thomas.

 

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Lexi is not off the film

 

Lexi is still involved in the edit process

 

The film is not (nor could it ever be) PG-13

 

Today I saw a cut that ran 91 minutes

 

Lexi did in fact get married

 

INVOLVED.

 

THAT'S IT.

 

NOT HEAVILY INVOLVED.

 

JUST INVOLVED.

 

-TL

 

 

 

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I still don't understand why this matters so much to you. If she's involved or not, you've already said you think the movie is going to be shit.

 

Correction - I KNOW the movie is going to be shit.

 

I still can't believe this happened to The Punisher.

 

I blame LGF.

 

*Let me quote Lexi's latest blog...

 

"Sometimes you have to remind yourself of the past to create a happy future."

 

-TL

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INVOLVED.

 

THAT'S IT.

 

NOT HEAVILY INVOLVED.

 

JUST INVOLVED.

 

-TL

... Okay. If someone told me that they were involved in something, I'd think "aw ok, they're working on it" Not analyze it from every angle and make my own assumption and present is as a fact.

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The only people that KNOW it is bad, are the ones that worked on it. The people who were filming it, acting in it, involved with the whole process. Right now, the only person who has more knowledge on the movie then the rest of us is Steve Gainer. Out of everyone on this board, including Tim and Tom, Steve is the only one who knows what the movie is like.

 

I've said it before, this is not what I would consider to be the ultimate Punisher movie, and if it sucks, I will admit it, and I will say all the reasons why I think it sucks, but that is after I see it, not before.

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Guest FADoss

Wow...

 

You guys need to slow down...I was in a photo shoot this morning. Headshots...

 

Dude, some people don't wanna be sold a product the way some of these IMDB people are trying to sell Ray Stevenson.

 

Its fuckin annoying.

 

-TL

 

The same way some people are trying to sell the 04 film as classic cinema? Or that Hensleigh would have saved Punisher 2? Again, there were only a few things good that came out of the 04 film...Jane's Punisher being one of them.

 

Truth is, I don't think I can watch Ray Stevenson without my thoughts being polluted by some of the posts in here by his adoring fans. I'm sure Ray will be fine. One less person watching his movies won't break the bank.

 

k-skye

 

Well, if that's true then I imagine there are a whole lot of potential Jane fans that would be traumatized by the behavior of some of his fans here.

 

The way I see it, of all the places to come sell the Ray Stevenson product - why pick RAW?

 

Because Thomas Jane runs it?

 

Because its a Board with SOME intelligence as opposed to IMDB?

 

Its always good to have somebody to talk shop with, but not if they're bible salesmen.

 

That conversation is usually one-sided.

 

-TL

 

NO, I believe it had more to do with your asshole comments about the film than anything else... Jane didn't bring the imdb people here. YOU did. And I think if we kept it to intelligent discourse featuring fact and quality debate NO ONE would have come kicking the door down. It's the 150+ pages of FUCK YOUS and name calling and making fun of Ray Stevenson WITH NO GROUNDS TO DO SO that brought on that crowd.

 

I blame YOU for them coming here TL, not Tom Jane.

 

Steve came here to say Lexi was "involved" in post.

 

That's it.

 

Does it mean she's back on the film?

 

Not necessarily.

 

What woulda backed up the idea of Lexi being back alltogether was her blog going back to normal.

 

This wasn't a 2 day argument.

 

Its been over a month now.

 

She's clearly out.

 

-TL

 

 

If she's INVOLVED at ALL then she is still WORKING on the film. Either Steve was lying/mistaken or she's on the project.

 

Correction - I KNOW the movie is going to be shit.

 

I still can't believe this happened to The Punisher.

 

I blame LGF.

 

*Let me quote Lexi's latest blog...

 

"Sometimes you have to remind yourself of the past to create a happy future."

 

-TL

 

Strong belief does not constitute KNOWLEDGE. On another thread you appear to be excited about Crank 2, but WAR ZONE will be shit? Dude.

 

And don't limit it to LGF. TOO EASY. Blame Marvel. Blame Lexi. Blame Hensleigh. Blame Hurd. Blame Steve. Hell, while you're at it blame Ray AND Jane. Let's hate everyone for it.

 

Fred

 

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Guest FADoss
Back before Tom was cast in the last one I was thinking West would make an excellent Castle.

Before I knew Tom or his work, even after he was cast I was saying Dominic West.

Funny the parallels.

What can I say? I like the casting too.

Though my money is on Knight's part having an element of comedy, otherwise, why cast Knight?

Though he WAS effective in a somewhat less comedic role in Jurassic.

I hope it's not a comic relief part. I'm smelling it that way but I've been wrong before.

At least once ;)

 

Even so, Knight rocks.

 

- tb

 

On the subject of West being a crappy actor TL...here is something Tim posted before you or I joined the discussion and it degenrated to what it is now.

 

Fred

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The same way some people are trying to sell the 04 film as classic cinema? Or that Hensleigh would have saved Punisher 2? Again, there were only a few things good that came out of the 04 film...Jane's Punisher being one of them.

 

Fred, the fact that you're even questioning Hensleigh's ability to make a better, smarter Punisher II shows you're talkin out of your ass man.

 

And Jane's Punisher IS the '04 film so I don't even understand what you're trying to say with that.

 

*In regards to the IMDB people - they've been tearing up Jane and Hensleigh for months.

 

That shit started looooong before they even learned about the existence of RAW.

 

Pray they never go after you Fred, cause you will fuckin punch the wall.

 

-TL

 

 

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Fred, the fact that you're even questioning Hensleigh's ability to make a better, smarter Punisher II shows you're talkin out of your ass man.

 

And Jane's Punisher IS the '04 film so I don't even understand what you're trying to say with that.

 

*In regards to the IMDB people - they've been tearing up Jane and Hensleigh for months.

 

That shit started looooong before they even learned about the existence of RAW.

 

Pray they never go after you Fred, cause you will fuckin punch the wall.

 

-TL

 

BRING em after me. If I'm big enough where there's THAT much attention being cast on a role I've done and pretty much EVERYONE agrees my performance was one of the only saving graces for the picture I'll be FUCKING ECSTATIC!!!

 

I don't think Hensleigh would have SAVED Punisher 2. YOU seem to be the only person here trying to sell it as one of the greatest films ever made...

 

And all I said is that they aren't HERE because of anything other than YOU.

 

Fred

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Here's a thought, and this was mentioned to me in as part of a recent private message. -

 

I think folks forget that the thread is about a film, not Thomas Logan and how he feels about a film.

 

Yes, it's obvious and apparent that TL is no fan of what this film represents. It really doesn't matter that he has not seen it folks.

The end result doesn't really figure into his viewpoint. He knows all he needs to know and he's reached a verdict.

Is that fair? Yes and no. It's fair to him, and he's not going to be swayed or change his opinion in spite of all the good natured pleas or return-volley disgust.

If you bring it back on him you are only challenging him. You are challenging his belief, his brand of ethics. It's a no win scenario.

People that have chosen to engage him on the subject thoughtfully (and thank you very much folks) usually find equally engaging replies in turn, though you still ain't gonna change his mind ;)

 

The quoted statement is spot on.

 

I certainly don't agree with everything TL says but I do understand him and why he feels the way he feels.

Arguing against his angle is all a very natural response to those of us that are offended by his direct and finite words, have a differing opinion, or see things from a different perspective. But I think it's fairly obvious through over 150 pages of this thread that much of this conversation has become a rallying of Warzone fans to the defense of this film against Thomas Logan's viewpoint. And it's no wonder. He has been present almost every moment of the way, standing by his particular principles. It's relatively easy to be suckered into a high spirited debate.

 

I don't fault anyone for standing for what they believe in. You have every right to counter the accusations. Just know going in that it is going to fall on deaf ears.

By entering into the TL arena to such a large degree you/I/we have collectively invited him to hold court.

Remember, he's just a guy with a forceful difference of opinion. He didn't work on the film. He's a disappointed fan who is shouting his disgust.

 

Don't like it? Ignore him. It's simple. You have the control in your controls ;)

It would be fun if we were all of one mind, and maybe if David Fincher was helming a 70 million $ Punisher epic we would be.

 

 

Anyway, you make the choice. Do you want to discuss the film from it's inception, pre-Ray Stevenson era to the present, or do you want to argue with a fella about his standards?

 

- TB

 

 

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Guest FADoss

Well TIM, when the jackass flames everyone with an alternate opinion it makes it pretty hard to ignore him. :)

 

I REALLY like having TL here. He's a smart guy and has lots of great shit to say, but he is SUCH AN ASS!!!

 

If he were to acquire some TACT this thread would be much more relaxed...

 

And...

 

Sadly...

 

BORING.

 

Fred

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