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The Punisher: WarZone


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Hi Logan, thanks for the welcome, sorry if I hit a nerve. Looks like you wear em on your sleeve! lol

 

Just thought I ought to apologise for what is now a very obvious inaccuracy in my previous post. I should of known better, for no sooner had I said that I doubted anyone here had any degree of success as an actor or screenwriter or whatever, up pops Tom Jane himself! WOW! and then Tim, and of course I forgot about Steve. So my apologies, as I said, it should have been obvious considering this is Toms forum. And to be totally fair I shouldn't even have made critical comments about any posters success or otherwise at all. I wish you all the luck and envy in the world (Particulary envy!)

 

I got drawn to this forum as various articles had linked it in connection with Steve Gainers comments clarifying the status of PWZ and Lexi, I didn't come here looking to defend the film. TBH i'm suprised that Toms forum has much interest in PWZ at all.

 

I posted because I felt I wanted to express my opinion on the negative commentary of a film that hasn't had a release, it seems that some, (you in particular Logan) do not want this movie to be any good. I was also highly suprised to see what is believed by some to be the script for the movie dislayed here. I would expect that any post that gives a detailed description of the movie that is NOT YET AVAILABLE should have been removed. I know that I didnt have to read it, but its too easy to get caught up in the moment and find yourself in the 3rd act before you realise what your doing!

 

Out of curiosity, is the Nomad that posts here the same one thats being linked to the insider view on PWZ? She sounds like the same person (All sweetie this and Lovey that! lol)

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I think Tim Bradstreet once referred to them as the "video game crowd", which im apart of...Though the Punisher fan in me wants that Gritty urban crime film so much more...I think Frank Castle has the potential to be every bit as iconic as Batman...And for him to just be written off as a big meathead mowing baddies down is a serious cop-out...

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Hi Logan, thanks for the welcome, sorry if I hit a nerve. Looks like you wear em on your sleeve! lol And to be totally fair I shouldn't even have made critical comments about any posters success or otherwise at all. I wish you all the luck and envy in the world (Particulary envy!)

 

My problem with your post was you addressing it to "people" and not to me directly.

 

I always tell people here that got a problem with me "Say you got a problem with me."

 

That's just the kinda guy I am, and apparently Steve's the same way.

 

If someone's gonna question us, we're gonna question that someone.

 

-TL

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Well in reply to that, you werent the only one mentioning that you were involved with the film industry. So I mentioned people because I honestly thought there was more than one. I did use your quote on "NOBODIES" because of all the negative critisism that one was the most offensive considering your career choice. However in replying to it I aimed my reply at anyone who would do such a thing.

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Believe it or not, I'm a pretty nice guy.

 

I can be a bull at times, but only when poked.

 

In this thread I do one thing and one thing alone: REFUSE to bend over for LGF and that garbage movie the purists are eating up like Obama's bullshit gospel.

 

As I've said many times, Warzone represents a failure in cinema.

 

Where good, serious projects are scrapped for cheaper, more accessible formulaic products.

 

If The Punisher community had ANY class, they would be against Warzone and giving LGF a box office beating by refusing to sit through those 90 minutes IF it makes it to theatres.

 

Unfortunately we live in a society where common sense and intelligence are becoming scarce.

 

Lack of education, rap music, massive amounts of marijuana and an all around lack of interest in the Military and self preservation are the many things that are DESTROYING today's youth.

 

Its not the economy or violence at schools - its lazyness.

 

Warzone IS lazyness.

 

-TL

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Well i'm not really interested in a political commentary here. And as far as the Punisher community is concerned, they should do as they see fit. However I certainly don't appreciate being told how to view an unreleased movie.

 

To put that in context, I was told repeatedly that Strarship Troopers was going to be utter crap, based largely on its cast and deviation from the book. However I looked forward to seeing it and was thrilled with what I saw. I think i'm in the minority on this one, but I stand by my opinion. For me this was a great film.

 

Another example would be TDK, although not a huge fan of Nolans first batman, I did look forward to TDK. I liked the story and the characterization of the Joker in particular, but there were elements I strongly disagreed with (Batman blowing up stuff with back cannons for one, I kept seeing Judge Dredd on that bike "Bike Cannons, blow em away!!").

 

I don't understand why you say PWZ is lazyness, From what I understand Lexi had a vision of it and that were going to see pretty much what she intended. LGF did treat Meat Train badly, but as of yet I haven't seen PWZ being thrown out the door to DVD. Their being pretty quiet about it, but then its 4 months from release. I dont expect a big hoohaa when they release it anyway, Lexi's vision sounds like it is aimed at a niche market (and most here, including you seem to agree). I don't have a problem with aiming for a particular audience, as you can please everyone all the time anyway. This film might find its niche audience and give em exactly what they want (As Straship Troopers did) It could have continued Janes film, but it may have found that in reaching to the wider audience it missed its mark. (Which the 04 film did for me).

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Just the fact that Frank supposedly kills a good guy (Ray Stevenson himself confirmed this) is enough to turn me off to this film...At this point im not expecting a serious, gritty and faithful Punisher film like we wouldve gotten with Tom Jane..But I am expecting to hopefully get a fun popcorn movie ala Hitman which I enjoyed for what it was.

It's happened in the comics dozens of times. When it happens it drives him (more)nuts.

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Believe it or not, I'm a pretty nice guy.

 

I can be a bull at times, but only when poked.

 

In this thread I do one thing and one thing alone: REFUSE to bend over for LGF and that garbage movie the purists are eating up like Obama's bullshit gospel.

 

As I've said many times, Warzone represents a failure in cinema.

 

Where good, serious projects are scrapped for cheaper, more accessible formulaic products.

 

If The Punisher community had ANY class, they would be against Warzone and giving LGF a box office beating by refusing to sit through those 90 minutes IF it makes it to theatres.

 

Unfortunately we live in a society where common sense and intelligence are becoming scarce.

 

Lack of education, rap music, massive amounts of marijuana and an all around lack of interest in the Military and self preservation are the many things that are DESTROYING today's youth.

 

Its not the economy or violence at schools - its lazyness.

 

Warzone IS lazyness.

 

-TL

Wow, now you're turning this in to a political discussion? Complete with what sounds like a "rah, rah, the liberals, rah, rah!" shtick?

 

Also, I still don't see why I should be so militantly against this movie. I still have very few problems with what I have heard about it. Those problems come from what I know to be fact, not all the rumors you love to hate.

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Guest AdminGuyX

Well shit. I miss ALL the fun when I sleep.

 

Tom, I love your outline for the sequel as well. LGF is out of it's fucking collective mind.

 

Would have been a great film I have no doubt. I'd of liked it better than the last, especially with Walter Hill directing a story like that, my ass is in the seat buddy. I'd of seen that multiple times.

 

Obviously LGF wasn't interested in your vision from the get go. You could have walked in with the ghost of Sam Peckinpah, wouldn't have mattered to 'em.

 

I was pretty heartbroken reading your post, I have to admit. I'm sure that was a bottom line decision for them, but they could have gotten many writers to handle that story if that was the story they got behind. I'm pissed off that they didn't.

 

They should have just hired you to direct it, and let you make the film you wanted to make. Good God.

 

I think after the film is released, we can have a more evenhanded conversation about it.

 

:)

 

Yeah right.

 

On to the more unsavory aspects of recent posts:

 

I'm certainly not going to apologize for how we maintain and run this board. I don't feel any explanation is owed.

 

However, it's a two way street. Here are a few things to keep in mind when you have an issue.

 

Tim and I don't always have the time to see what's going on. Sometimes problems get buried in pages of a thread after it's run it's own course. Especially with this monster.

 

You don't have to perpetuate a problem if you see one.

 

You don't have to ackowledge a posted comment, or carry through that line of thinking with your own post if it's personal or off topic, or even an attack on you.

 

You don't have to attack back.

 

Use the REPORT button to let us know there is a problem.

 

You also have the ability on this board to block seeing a given members posts if you really dislike them.

 

No one has a gun to your head making you read this, or making you sign in on this board.

 

My message center is always open, by the way, so questions, concerns, or problems can be sent to me via PM or email.

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I still don't see why I should be so militantly against this movie. I still have very few problems with what I have heard about it. Those problems come from what I know to be fact, not all the rumors you love to hate.

 

If Lexi Alexander showed up at your house and told you in perfect english "THIS MOVIE BLOWS BALLS!!!", you would STILL argue with her and say "I need to see it first".

 

So far we got Kurt Sutter saying its shit, Dominic West saying its a comedy, Lexi saying its a "surreal cartoon", Jane KNOWS the script is garbage, and Joe Drake considering dumping it on to video.

 

Let's add the SUPER CHEESY AND GENERIC Trailers, the fact that LGF fired Lexi from post (FACT) and the embarrassing running time of 91 minutes Steve Gainer informed us of.

 

You DONT wanna listen.

 

And that's fine with me.

 

-TL

 

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If Lexi Alexander showed up at your house and told you in perfect english "THIS MOVIE BLOWS BALLS!!!", you would STILL argue with her and say "I need to see it first".

 

So far we got Kurt Sutter saying its shit, Dominic West saying its a comedy, Lexi saying its a "surreal cartoon", Jane KNOWS the script is garbage, and Joe Drake considering dumping it on to video.

 

Let's add the SUPER CHEESY AND GENERIC Trailers, the fact that LGF fired Lexi from post (FACT) and the embarrassing running time of 91 minutes Steve Gainer informed us of.

 

You DONT wanna listen.

 

And that's fine with me.

 

-TL

Show me Sutter saying it's shit and West saying it's a comedy. Don't paraphrase, I want a direct copy and paste quote along with a website as source. Also, were did you hear the "fact" that Lexi has been fired? Steve Gainer said she's still attached. Like you said, he wouldn't bad mouth his own movie, but saying she is off the film isn't bad mouthing. You're calling him a liar.

 

If Lexi came to my door and told me it's shit, I'd probably take her word for it. I would still see it on opening day and judge for myself though.

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Guest FADoss
If Lexi Alexander showed up at your house and told you in perfect english "THIS MOVIE BLOWS BALLS!!!", you would STILL argue with her and say "I need to see it first".

 

So far we got Kurt Sutter saying its shit, Dominic West saying its a comedy, Lexi saying its a "surreal cartoon", Jane KNOWS the script is garbage, and Joe Drake considering dumping it on to video.

 

Let's add the SUPER CHEESY AND GENERIC Trailers, the fact that LGF fired Lexi from post (FACT) and the embarrassing running time of 91 minutes Steve Gainer informed us of.

 

You DONT wanna listen.

 

And that's fine with me.

 

-TL

 

No, because LEXI would be delivering first hand knowledge...not just rumors she read on the internet. Look at all the bullshit out there about Jane's involvment with War Zone. Instead of picking and choosing what to believe, some of us are applying ration and LOGIC to the film.

 

Sutter never said it was shit...YOU implied this and judging by the way you twist MY words all the time, I can't really rely on your interpretation of what he said or someone said he said.

 

I SAW that interview with WEST and he did NOT call it comedy. There you go again...twisting things.

 

Jane knows the script they gave him was NOT what he invisioned for The Punisher.

 

I don't know anything about Drake, but I assume he works for LGF, who you call IDIOTS on one hand and then back up their decision when it's convenient to your argument.

 

We're listening...we just don't agree with your militant attacks on the film.

 

I'm OPEN to the idea that this movie MAY suck ass in Dec. You however, are not open to anything other than it's complete failure. There is a DIFFERENCE between being concerned and CAMPAIGNING against a film. And what do you gain out of being right? Bragging rights?

 

One thing you WON'T get for your efforst to lambast folks on here is RESPECT. Which is sad, because you're a smart guy with a LOT of talent who has some great things to say. However, your INABILITY to see anyone else's point of view is annoying and hurtful. That and SO many inconsistencies from thread to thread...it's hard to pick up on what you believe.

 

Fred

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Guest AdminGuyX
I would prefer Keaton as a serious Jigsaw

 

Amen. That would have been pretty spectacular.

 

Show me Sutter saying it's shit and West saying it's a comedy. Don't paraphrase, I want a direct copy and paste quote along with a website as source. Also, were did you hear the "fact" that Lexi has been fired?

 

http://sutterink.blogspot.com/2008/02/puni...t=1203108660000

 

http://movieblog.ugo.com/index.php/moviebl...noo_yawk_accent

 

Google is your friend.

 

;)

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Fred, I already know this movie isn't the Punisher movie you were lookin for.

 

I determined that a few days ago.

 

My question is, why do continue to act blind and deaf when you have SO MUCH in front of you to demonstrate how bad this film is gonna be?

 

Shit, even Street eased up on the high hopes campaign for this movie after seeing the Comicon footage.

 

I'm not gonna call you stubborn, cause I dont think stubborn best describes your current argument here.

 

-TL

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The film isn't even going to hold up to Tom Jane's last post.

 

Now all I'm going to think about is THAT film when I'm watching PWZ. The film that could have been.

 

Done deal for me. It's effected my point of view completely.

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Again, TL, it's not that you think the film is going to be BAD that bothers me. It's the inability to allow anyone else to have hope. Your continuous snide comments and bating. Your flaming posts toward pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you. It's gotten ridiculous at times. That and your consistent reliance on heresay and conjecture when it serves your purposes just kills me. I KNOW you are smarter than that.

 

And Noeland, again, West does NOT say it's going to be a comedy. I also agree that Jane's ideas for the film would have been great...HELMED by the right people. A great idea without a great script and director is just War Zone with Tom Jane.

 

Fred

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Amen. That would have been pretty spectacular.

http://sutterink.blogspot.com/2008/02/puni...t=1203108660000

 

http://movieblog.ugo.com/index.php/moviebl...noo_yawk_accent

 

Google is your friend.

 

;)

Thanks. Sutter never said it was shit, in fact, he said he thinks Punisher fans will enjoy it. West never said "this movie is a comedy", he said that he played his role as a comedy and that the violence is done in an interesting and "funny" way. That's hardly calling the film a comedy.

 

Punisher isn't a stranger to funny violence, I've seen Frank squash a man by using a fat man. I've seen Frank throw a limbless women into a fire. Hell, I've even seen Frank punch a Polar Bear.

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Thanks. Sutter never said it was shit, in fact, he said he thinks Punisher fans will enjoy it. West never said "this movie is a comedy", he said that he played his role as a comedy and that the violence is done in an interesting and "funny" way. That's hardly calling the film a comedy.

 

Dude, you are in THE worst case of denial I have ever encountered. Ever.

 

Your post is a testament of how right Kurt Sutter was when he said [iDIOT] Punisher fans would enjoy this [iDIOTIC] movie.

 

-TL

 

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Well, I don't think West gets it. That bugs me. I feel like he cashed a check. That bugs me.

 

His comments about playing it for laughs bothered me the first time I watched the interview (check back 100 pages for my comments then) and they bother me even more now that I have seen snippets of his performance, and he's hamming it up. No thanks.

 

I don't want a funny Jigsaw, and I don't want a Punisher film with funny violence in it. I don't care if he punched a polar bear. I don't want to SEE THAT on screen.

 

Ever.

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I also agree that Jane's ideas for the film would have been great...HELMED by the right people. A great idea without a great script and director is just War Zone with Tom Jane.

 

Unless Jane had the right people, he wouldn't have done it.

 

Hence the reason Warzone is Janeless.

 

Jane doesn't do garbage movies.

 

-TL

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Dude, you are in THE worst case of denial I have ever encountered. Ever.

 

Your post is a testament of how right Kurt Sutter was when he said [iDIOT] Punisher fans would enjoy this [iDIOTIC] movie.

 

-TL

Holy shit, he never said any such thing. You do love to twist things to fit your morbid sense of reality, don't you? He said "true Punisher fans will enjoy it". You're basically calling all fans of the Punisher idiots. We are all a bunch of idiots just because we're not ready to set fire to a building because we didn't get our way.

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Do you mean because Noeland asked if you were high when you posted back a few pages?

 

As for me . . . When did I slap yer hand?

 

- tb

 

 

well it really was a baby tap... Tim, you edited a post I made that could have snowballed into what we have here, because it was not the proper place (that was true, and you were really cool about it.). Noeland deleted an entire post because, I assume, it may have offended someone, but Im sure he knows and I know it was a harmless jab and it wasnt nesessary. Zero tolerance I thought, but some come here with fists and have the right to constantly be repetitive to the point that the majority is annoyed. You wear it on your sleave, now put it on you sig and move on...

 

bottom line, Im superglad this place is modded regularly to keep the monkey's at bay. Ive been to boards where admin. is just a word, and chaos reigns. We are fortunate, this place is a dream, good job.

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Guest AdminGuyX
And Noeland, again, West does NOT say it's going to be a comedy.

 

He played it as a comedy. How much difference does there need to be?

 

Honestly, I think this could be a way for him to try and cover his own ass down the road. The fact that it's not supposed to be a comedy makes it worse than if it was a comedy.

 

hardy har fucking har. You know?

 

Fred, think as an actor. If your director, producers, leads, and fans want a serious film, and you play it as a comedy, are you doing your job properly?

 

Makes me wonder if Lexi gave him that piece of direction.

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Guest AdminGuyX

_C_ You know why I removed your post. I removed your "entire" post because it was one line about another members dick.

 

Lets not act as if you added anything to the conversation and I removed it.

 

Had you commented on the film, I'd of left that portion in the post.

 

I have enjoyed many of your comments otherwise, and I think you're funny as hell.

 

And the question was real, your post was nonsensical, and some folks realy enjoy posting online when they are stoned.

 

 

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