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The Punisher

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Guest AdminGuyX
The torture scene with Mickey, while cool, seemed a bit out of character...as if Frank were having too much fun. BUT here you have it straight from the source material.

 

I recognized it straight away as it was one of those scenes from the comic that always stayed with me, and for me it was always one of the moments they got right in the '04 film.

 

;)

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I thought it was a little odd as well until I dug into my collection at the time the film came out. Up the that point, the film was kind of dark and I thought it was put in as a "breather" for the audience, get a few laughs and not depress them the whole time. It was funny though.

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So,

 

I'm digging through the comic box this evening and find "The Punisher: War Zone #1" from 1992. Because it shares a name with the new film I thumbed through it to see if there were any inspiration for the 08 flick. I didn't see any, BUT I saw a word for word scene played out from the 04 film.

 

The torture scene with Mickey, while cool, seemed a bit out of character...as if Frank were having too much fun. BUT here you have it straight from the source material.

 

torturewarzone04md1.gif

Fred

 

yeah i was always proud that the film got that little part right...

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And yet, most people seem to dislike it, even though clearly it's taken verbatim from the comic. They just get too hung up on the changed origin and Florida setting.

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Guest FADoss

Had an idea based on my previous post and Tom/Tim, you guys may be able to help. Can anyone else help post the source material for OTHER scenes in the film? I kind of stumbled into the War Zone #1 thing. I'm sure there are other folks lots sharper than I on the subject.

 

Would be neat to compile them here.

 

Fred

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Well lets see

 

The fight with the Russian was just about scene for scene from Welcome Back, Frank, when Dave is getting his rings pulled out is from Welcome Back, Frank, the way the Punisher put the skull on his Kevlar body armor was from Punisher: Year One, when Frank gives that big speech just before the big gun fight near the end is just about taken from Punisher: Year One, the gun fight at the end of the film is taken from Punisher: Year One, and when Frank left Dave, Joan and Bumpo money at the end is from Welcome Back, Frank.

There are a few pictures in this link

http://www.punisher-art.com/original_art/c...000/pun2000.htm

 

It's interesting to note that in a black&white comic book, Marvel Preview Presents, the Punisher went to a Punta Verde retreat, on the Gulf Coast of Florida to find the people who killed his family.

 

Others are somewhat from the comic. Like when the Punisher is drinking heavily was from Punisher: Year One. The shooting knife was a weapon seen in Punisher: WJ Vol.1, Welcome Back, Frank and a few other issues. As for the flaming skull.... it should be noted that many times in past Punisher comic books the image of his skull appeared in the smoke after an explosion or other times it appeared on the ground, on a wall, or in the sky.

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Tim's already mentioned that the studio/Marvel wanted the flaming skull.

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Gotcha.

 

Also, there was like a page in Year One where Bruno Costa was shown to be in Florida. With that and the Marvel Preview it seems like Florida isn't as random of a place for the setting character wise as people would think.

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Does anyone know if "The Punisher" had any scenes which were planned but not filmed.

The finalfight is in my opinion too short.

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Well lets see

 

The fight with the Russian was just about scene for scene from Welcome Back, Frank, when Dave is getting his rings pulled out is from Welcome Back, Frank, the way the Punisher put the skull on his Kevlar body armor was from Punisher: Year One, when Frank gives that big speech just before the big gun fight near the end is just about taken from Punisher: Year One, the gun fight at the end of the film is taken from Punisher: Year One, and when Frank left Dave, Joan and Bumpo money at the end is from Welcome Back, Frank.

There are a few pictures in this link

http://www.punisher-art.com/original_art/c...000/pun2000.htm

 

It's interesting to note that in a black&white comic book, Marvel Preview Presents, the Punisher went to a Punta Verde retreat, on the Gulf Coast of Florida to find the people who killed his family.

 

Others are somewhat from the comic. Like when the Punisher is drinking heavily was from Punisher: Year One. The shooting knife was a weapon seen in Punisher: WJ Vol.1, Welcome Back, Frank and a few other issues. As for the flaming skull.... it should be noted that many times in past Punisher comic books the image of his skull appeared in the smoke after an explosion or other times it appeared on the ground, on a wall, or in the sky.

 

excellent assessment, James. all that lifting from the comics -- if only they'd kept the god damn origin intact...

 

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excellent assessment, James. all that lifting from the comics -- if only they'd kept the god damn origin intact...

 

Why thank you Tom:) And yes... what could have been.

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When I heard Ray Stevenson was cast in PWZ, I didn't know a thing about comics, comic movies, or that ANY of this world existed. So I went out and bought all the MAX Punisher series and both previous Punisher films. I watched the films first, before reading the comics.

 

Now that I've read them, and many more comics/graphic novels I've loved, I'm going to watch both films again. I'm wondering not whether, but HOW differently I'll see them both. Should be interesting!

 

Nomad

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Guest FADoss

Wow! Watched the extended cut last night for the first time and must say that I think my opinion of this film was too skewed by all the arguing going on in this forum. First of all, my first time seeing the animated segment. Can't say I dug the style (though Street's work was cool as always), but it was a heck of a scene. Also, my first time seeing the Jimmy Weeks segment on film. Brilliant stuff there. As an actor, I can imagine how mortified you would be to go see your film at the theater and find out your scenes had been cut from THAT to what we ended up with in the theater. It's a nightmare!!! AND completely undeserved. Those scenes added SO much to the story.

 

I also didn't mind Travolta this time around. The fire hydrant didn't seem that dumb...AND not being such a stickler for the Punisher "origin" during the viewing it all WORKED for me. I actually ENJOYED this film for the first time since I saw it in theaters.

 

Fred

 

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I thought the Jimmy Weeks sub plot work even without the Kuwait opening. Though they should have left the Saint intro cut out and begun the movie like in the theatrical cut.

 

And I've kinda the reverse effect with fire hydrant, watching the movie recently you could pretty cut all that shit down to just Castle doing recon, going into the car and looking through shit and using the phone and leave it at that and not really lose anything. That and a few of the cut aways to Dave, Bumpo and Joan during the Russian fight I thought could have been cut.

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Guest FADoss

It truly is an odd movie in that, depending on my mood, I like it more or less and am very critical. I've seen Star Wars A LOT and sometimes I enjoy it more than others, but I NEVER tear Episode IV apart. And there are many movies that I just dislike every time I see them. The 04 Punisher is an anomaly to me.

 

Fred

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Is there a "director's cut" of "Punisher" ?

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Guest FADoss

Extended Cut is the closest thing so far I believe.

 

Here is another news source I just became privy to and is probably old news to most of you. Chuck Dixon's opinion on the 04 film:

 

[Chuck Dixon weighs in on Punisher flick.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

One of the greatest all time writers of Frank tells all.

 

 

 

'My biggest problem is that they played Frank as a detective instead of a soldier. My Punisher would have killed John Travolta as soon as he knew Travolta was the one who ordered his family killed. He wouldn't have investigated and then set up an overly-elaborate sting operation. The movie spent far too much time treading water. Were I writing it? Frank would have found ouyt that Travolkta was his target and then gone through Travolta's stronghold like a dose of Ex-lax. Travolta is the only one who escapes the carnage and goes into the witness protection program to save his own ass. Frank must then hunt his quarry without harming any law enforcement personnel. In the end, the mob learns of Travolta's whereabouts as well and it's a Wild Bunch type stand off between Frank and some federal marshals and an amry of hitmen.' Chuck Dixon was quoted on his own website Dixonverse.

 

All us Punisher fans out there feel a bit the same and would love to see an originator of Frank come out and helm an actually movie of the Punisher.]

 

 

 

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The only good Punisher story Chuck ever did was only the first few issues of War Zone. The last few issues went down hill. All his others stories were crap and his Marvel Knights team-up was pure shit... and so was this film. His so-called idea as to what should have happened in the film sucks.

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Extended Cut is the closest thing so far I believe.

 

Here is another news source I just became privy to and is probably old news to most of you. Chuck Dixon's opinion on the 04 film:

 

[Chuck Dixon weighs in on Punisher flick.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

One of the greatest all time writers of Frank tells all.

 

'My biggest problem is that they played Frank as a detective instead of a soldier. My Punisher would have killed John Travolta as soon as he knew Travolta was the one who ordered his family killed. He wouldn't have investigated and then set up an overly-elaborate sting operation. The movie spent far too much time treading water. Were I writing it? Frank would have found ouyt that Travolkta was his target and then gone through Travolta's stronghold like a dose of Ex-lax. Travolta is the only one who escapes the carnage and goes into the witness protection program to save his own ass. Frank must then hunt his quarry without harming any law enforcement personnel. In the end, the mob learns of Travolta's whereabouts as well and it's a Wild Bunch type stand off between Frank and some federal marshals and an amry of hitmen.' Chuck Dixon was quoted on his own website Dixonverse.

 

All us Punisher fans out there feel a bit the same and would love to see an originator of Frank come out and helm an actually movie of the Punisher.]

 

 

I think that if they had done this, the movie would have been just "barbaric", with a scenario empty and hollow : just a guy who kills without batting an eyelid for two hours, to take revenge. Frank was to attract a little sympathy, to be more "human". Moreover, the movie would have been even more violent, and in France it was banned less than 16 years (which is much) and censored in some cinemas... the scenario of the movie seemed to me therefore more sought and more interesting, but less faithful to the comic.

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While I think The Punisher is not a perfect movie (I think the editing/pacing was too slow, some of the music didn't work and Travolta phoned it in... which was a real shame as he has been a great bad guy in the past), I did really like the idea that Castle methodically sets Saint up, taking everything from him (not just his life), his friend, his wife, his sons and then his life!

Revenge best as a dish best served cold and all of that.

 

I can see some of Chuck Dixon's idea's working well (although it could have been a bit too close to Shoot Em Up), but an ending with The Punisher having to work damn hard not to hurt any innocents in a True Romance/Smokin' Aces style shoot-out climax could just have come off as silly.

 

Thinking about Dixon's comments, would he have re-written "Dead Man's Shoes" too?

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Guest FADoss
While I think The Punisher is not a perfect movie (I think the editing/pacing was too slow, some of the music didn't work and Travolta phoned it in... which was a real shame as he has been a great bad guy in the past), I did really like the idea that Castle methodically sets Saint up, taking everything from him (not just his life), his friend, his wife, his sons and then his life!

Revenge best as a dish best served cold and all of that.

 

I can see some of Chuck Dixon's idea's working well (although it could have been a bit too close to Shoot Em Up), but an ending with The Punisher having to work damn hard not to hurt any innocents in a True Romance/Smokin' Aces style shoot-out climax could just have come off as silly.

 

Thinking about Dixon's comments, would he have re-written "Dead Man's Shoes" too?

 

I guess the one great thing about the 04 film was the methodical hate Castle exercises in getting his revenge. You REALLY have to hate someone to do what he did.

 

Fred

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