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Tim Bradstreet

The Punisher: WarZone

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Guest AdminGuyX

Certainly a big fat pass for me. Not even if they paid me $40 to take the DVD home with me.

 

Not only do I NEVER want to see this travesty again, but I have zero, zilch, nadda, none, less than 1, absolutely NO INTEREST in anything the creative team has to say about how they pulled it off. Watching the special features on this would probably anger me. Listening to the actors talking about what a genius Lexi is, or how great the film is . . . all of that is something I presently disagree with.

 

And yeah, the "2 disc" non sense they are pushing lately by slapping "a digital copy" into the box is very annoying.

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I'd sooner buy a special edition of the 1989 film. How the fuck could anyone go so wrong with actors like Stevenson, West and Huchison it's still baffling.

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I'd sooner buy a special edition of the 1989 film. How the fuck could anyone go so wrong with actors like Stevenson, West and Huchison it's still baffling.

 

That is a fucking great question! Lexi must have some bad drug addiction we haven't heard about, or something. West and Hutchinson were horrible in the movie, and they are both great actors. I've seen them in a lot of things, and this was another disappointment concerning the movie. I thought Ray was actually pretty good, but I don't know what happened with the others. I will never watch any Lexi film again. Sorry if I sound a bit whiny.

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I'd sooner buy a special edition of the 1989 film. How the fuck could anyone go so wrong with actors like Stevenson, West and Huchison it's still baffling.

 

i had never heard of any of those people until after i saw the movie. recognized the guy from green mile, that's it. everything and everyone sucked big time in this movie.

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Probably fake, but:

 

Hey GPA,

 

What's up my friends?

I haven't been browsing this site for a while. After the opening weekend I needed a few weeks off from anything Punisher and when I wanted to return to the site Kevin had me blocked!

(No, just kidding, the truth is I couldn't remember my password).

 

I have been catching up on all the new posts and opinions here and I'd like to comment on a couple of things.

 

First, the dvd director's cut petition, while I am very touched and flattered by the support & loyalty, the truth is that my original director's cut was not that much different from what we ended up with on the screen. Yes, fans of the film would probably enjoy the few minutes of extra footage that I had to cut, but it won't make a difference to those who hated the film.

 

This is a very specific film with a very specific take on the material and from what I gathered through reviews and fan mail I get, people either really, really hated it, or really, really loved it.

 

That's good, actually that's great.

I hated Benjamin Button and I don't understand why it was nominated for any award let alone thirteen Oscars. My husband loves the film and thinks I'm nuts.

My favorite film of 2008 was Ricky Gervais' Ghosttown, which sold about as many tickets as PWZ did.

 

What I'm saying is, stories are a matter of taste. As a filmmaker you score big when you tell a story with huge mass appeal, well that was challenging from the beginning since you all know quite well as longtime Punisher fans, this source material is not for everybody. We're not talking man pretending to be bat or man pretending to be spider here, we're talking man with skull on chest starts mass murdering.

 

I know some of you would have liked to see a more realistic version of the Punisher. While I understand that, neither I nor Ray Stevenson would have made this kind of film. In Ray's first meeting with Marvel and the studio he said that he doesn't want to make a vigilante film that'll make some angry teenager go out and shoot people. I really admired him for that and of course I agreed. To us and to many of PWZ's fans, the joy of reading a Max Punisher comic book lies in the "holy sh** I can't believe this just happened " moments.

 

A friend of mine forwarded me a review written by a very talented comedian named Patton Oswalt. I would say, of all people out there... he really, really got what we were trying to do. You should check it out sometime, I think it's on his blog.

 

We wanted to make people laugh out loud, and have their jaws drop as our boy Frank shoots some sh** and kills people in his larger than life ways.

 

What we definitely did not want to do is compete with The Dark Night, 'cause trust me, we would have had quite a big disadvantage...to be more specific a three hundred million dollar disadvantage.

 

I also have read some posts from people who think it was all the studio's or the writers fault. Hey, while I'm the first one to b***h about sh**ty studio behavior, in this case, they are not to blame. Other than the music, it really was my film that ended up on the screen. Nick Santora, Matt Holloway and Art Marcum provided us with great material, but they are not responsible nor do they have any kind of control of what story ends up on the screen.

 

So, if you want to blame anybody, blame me...well and maybe the marketing department that gave us an opening date, which I found out later is historically known as the worst boxoffice weekend.

 

Filmmaking is not half as glamorous as it seems. William, my young GPA friend, are you sure you want to continue studying film? :-)

 

So I hadn't even thought about anything Punisher since before Christmas, but the dvd people at Lionsgate called and asked if I wanted to do a commentary. At first I didn't, but my good buddy and cinematographer Steve thought it would be a good idea. He is convinced that PWZ will forever be a huge cult hit. Bless him.

 

So we ended up at a place called Margarita mix to tape the commentary, which to my surprise did indeed serve Margaritas. Oh my, oh my. After two of those, I had no control over what I was saying and you can probably hear me slur my words half way through. You will also get to hear some pretty honest stuff. Ha, ha, ha.

 

Well, that's all I have for now. To the GPA crew who came out to the premier: I adore you guys, email me or call me anytime you're in town. I consider you my friends and I mean that!

 

Best,

Lexi

 

Oh god yes I can't wait for deep commentary like "I thought of this scene while I was eating mushrooms and saw Ray Stevenson come out of the wall and kill a criminal made out of my own vomit."

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Thanks for that post, and if it actually was Lexi, I dislike her even more now :P I guess we may know for sure when the actual dvd features are revealed. Sadly, if Lexi and Ray didn't want to make a "realistic" movie, they shouldn't have bothered, and it's probably for the best that they won't be involved with further films (though I would still like to see Ray again in a realistic version if he would be up for it).

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Thing is Ghost Town is a good movie, and actually did better than Punisher: War Zone. And I'm willing to guess, that people that don't like it isn't because of the over the top unrealistic nature, but because of the horrible/clichéd dialogue and performances. I could have taken the over the top violence, if everything else in the the film wasn't so shitty in the script department or performances.

 

It's funny with the mention of Batman and Spider-Man, both movies take characters who are unbelievable or ridiculous and actually make them somewhat believable. Shit, even the physics in how Spider-Man swings through New York is actually fairly realistic in the way his body would move through the air.

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Thanks for that post, and if it actually was Lexi, I dislike her even more now :P I guess we may know for sure when the actual dvd features are revealed. Sadly, if Lexi and Ray didn't want to make a "realistic" movie, they shouldn't have bothered, and it's probably for the best that they won't be involved with further films (though I would still like to see Ray again in a realistic version if he would be up for it).

 

I can agree with that.

 

It's funny the more I find out word of mouth on Tom Jane and his views of the character the more respect I have for him.

The more I find out word of mouth on Lexi Alexander and her views on the character the more she bothers or aggrivates me.

 

I guess that's probably becuase Jane's views and interpretation of the Punisher seems to mirror my own whereas Alexander's views do not mirror mine in any way shape or form.

 

A bit of personal bias I guess...

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DVD Active is a legit site, and the special features for the 2 disc are what I expected.

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I'd like to hear Commentary by Steve Gainer and Ray Stevenson, and maybe some other cast members, but I don't want to hear one from Lexi. It's like she didn't even try, and she pretty much lied about everything from the start.

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Steve and Ray are really the only two I would like to hear from on it. Like Alexander said, "The 'holy sh** I can't believe this just happened' moments", is all she got from reading the comic that and Frank would actually kill a child. And I find that kinda insulting that she would think that's all fans of the comic would care about, and not an actually good and compelling story, because really when Frank isn't shooting people (which is really only in the beginning and end of the movie) it is just a flat out horribly written and clichéd movie.

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I'd like to hear Commentary by Steve Gainer and Ray Stevenson, and maybe some other cast members, but I don't want to hear one from Lexi. It's like she didn't even try, and she pretty much lied about everything from the start.

 

i wouldnt wanna hear anybody try to excuse themselves for this mess. they all took part in it so they are as guilty as the director. nobody had a gun to their heads.

 

it troubles me to think some people might actually buy this movie instead of any of the other two million good movies available on the shelves.

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Yipe! Didn't notice that.

I was looking at the thumbnail.

 

Hmm, not sure how I feel about that.

 

- tb

 

I just saw all 3 covers for this DVD and they all have "Brad Street Hotel" on them.

 

Still feel bad that I couldn't snag that neon sign at the after party for Tim. I even had Ray Stevenson willing to create a diversion. Guess that makes me very lame.

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It annoyed me how while the movie was being made Lexi was like "Yes, I'm going to make a good movie using the source material." and now she's like "Heh *takes a sip of whiskey*, it was a comic book movie *lights up blunt*, what did you expect? smiley_smug.gif"

 

Only good part in the movie was the flashback scene when Frank's at the graveyard.

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I just saw all 3 covers for this DVD and they all have "Brad Street Hotel" on them.

 

Still feel bad that I couldn't snag that neon sign at the after party for Tim. I even had Ray Stevenson willing to create a diversion. Guess that makes me very lame.

 

That's awesome! I want to conspire with Ray someday :P

 

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Guest AdminGuyX

Well, if Lexi is justifying that hard, I mean I can't blame her. The movie was just a train wreck, I would not want this on my resume.

 

But, obviously she has this sort of offhand ideology about it. The comments I read and heard prior to the film were very much the same way.

 

I may be responding to a fake post, but, it's late, I'm tired of fixing trigger springs and grinding metal (I've been working on guns all day) and I'm feeling a bit cranky . . .

 

I know some of you would have liked to see a more realistic version of the Punisher. While I understand that, neither I nor Ray Stevenson would have made this kind of film. In Ray's first meeting with Marvel and the studio he said that he doesn't want to make a vigilante film that'll make some angry teenager go out and shoot people. I really admired him for that and of course I agreed. To us and to many of PWZ's fans, the joy of reading a Max Punisher comic book lies in the "holy sh** I can't believe this just happened " moments.

 

See, this is just one big excuse, and the worst part about it is that she obviously has no idea what kind of film gets sick teenagers riled up. It sure as hell isn't Taxi Driver, and Narc. Teenagers love sadistic shit, and this was a sadistic film where people reveled in violence and mayhem, there were no serious consequences for doing so, in fact there were loads of rewards for doing so. They made the violence so cartoony, and "fun" that any kid who's out there blowing the legs off frogs with firecrackers, and had a skewed view of things and needs some guidance in life will probably connect most with LBJ.

 

This kind of offhanded mentality really makes me angry.

 

And since when did we start making these kinds of creative choices anyway? A realistic Punisher is going to drive teenagers to violence? HUH?

 

I've been watching action movie since I was about 11 years old, and I've never been arrested, never strapped bombs to my chest and walked into my school with a loaded gun. And I went to a school where it was accepted that during deer season you could bring guns to school if you were going hunting right afterwards.

 

Nobody ever got shot.

 

What I'm saying is, stories are a matter of taste. As a filmmaker you score big when you tell a story with huge mass appeal, well that was challenging from the beginning since you all know quite well as longtime Punisher fans, this source material is not for everybody. We're not talking man pretending to be bat or man pretending to be spider here, we're talking man with skull on chest starts mass murdering.

 

Again, I read this and wonder what in the hell she is thinking. Spider-Man "pretends" to be a spider does he? Bat-Man "pretends" to be a bat? Fuck that shit. If you open your mouth to speak, know what the fuck you're talking about. He wears a skull on his chest, is Frank Castle "pretending" to be a fucking skeleton?

 

:wacko:

 

We wanted to make people laugh out loud, and have their jaws drop as our boy Frank shoots some sh** and kills people in his larger than life ways.

 

Do you think the day they shot the pencil up the nose scene they said "That'll make jaws drop!" or "That will make people laugh out loud!"

 

Or the day they filmed the chandelier scene, do you wonder if they though "THAT won't set off any shaky armed teenagers! We did our job, we filmed Frank wiping out an entire mansion full of people and I'm fairly certain it won't make anyone want to shoot anyone else when they watch it."

 

Great.

 

And Patton Oswald sucks. How is HE any sort of gauge for how to receive a fucking PUNISHER movie????????

 

GAH!!!!

 

and maybe the marketing department that gave us an opening date, which I found out later is historically known as the worst boxoffice weekend.

 

Yes, the marketing department. Those bastards.

 

What we definitely did not want to do is compete with The Dark Night

 

AH, yes. The secret is out. We don't bother to compete with well written films. Films with amazing cinematography and solid character acting alongside epic performances . . . that's not our bag.

 

So I hadn't even thought about anything Punisher since before Christmas, but the dvd people at Lionsgate called and asked if I wanted to do a commentary. At first I didn't, but my good buddy and cinematographer Steve thought it would be a good idea. He is convinced that PWZ will forever be a huge cult hit. Bless him.

 

Again with the offhanded choices. Can we just start calling Lexi "the offhanded director"

 

Well . . . I felt like calling her that at first, but then I changed my mind. Meh.

 

And Steve, with all due respect, I think you're wrong.

 

So we ended up at a place called Margarita mix to tape the commentary, which to my surprise did indeed serve Margaritas. Oh my, oh my. After two of those, I had no control over what I was saying and you can probably hear me slur my words half way through. You will also get to hear some pretty honest stuff. Ha, ha, ha.

 

That's it. Obviously she lives her life in an offhanded fashion, and just goes with the flow. Commentary, no commentary, lets get toasted!

 

WHOOOOOHOOO!!

 

That'll help my image and reputation.

 

I consider you my friends and I mean that!

 

Well, she means it today. But next week. Meh.

 

"Who's Frank Castle again?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, if Lexi is justifying that hard, I mean I can't blame her. The movie was just a train wreck, I would not want this on my resume.

 

But, obviously she has this sort of offhand ideology about it. The comments I read and heard prior to the film were very much the same way.

 

I may be responding to a fake post, but, it's late, I'm tired of fixing trigger springs and grinding metal (I've been working on guns all day) and I'm feeling a bit cranky . . .

 

 

 

See, this is just one big excuse, and the worst part about it is that she obviously has no idea what kind of film gets sick teenagers riled up. It sure as hell isn't Taxi Driver, and Narc. Teenagers love sadistic shit, and this was a sadistic film where people reveled in violence and mayhem, there were no serious consequences for doing so, in fact there were loads of rewards for doing so. They made the violence so cartoony, and "fun" that any kid who's out there blowing the legs off frogs with firecrackers, and had a skewed view of things and needs some guidance in life will probably connect most with LBJ.

 

This kind of offhanded mentality really makes me angry.

 

And since when did we start making these kinds of creative choices anyway? A realistic Punisher is going to drive teenagers to violence? HUH?

 

I've been watching action movie since I was about 11 years old, and I've never been arrested, never strapped bombs to my chest and walked into my school with a loaded gun. And I went to a school where it was accepted that during deer season you could bring guns to school if you were going hunting right afterwards.

 

Nobody ever got shot.

 

 

 

Again, I read this and wonder what in the hell she is thinking. Spider-Man "pretends" to be a spider does he? Bat-Man "pretends" to be a bat? Fuck that shit. If you open your mouth to speak, know what the fuck you're talking about. He wears a skull on his chest, is Frank Castle "pretending" to be a fucking skeleton?

 

:wacko:

 

 

 

Do you think the day they shot the pencil up the nose scene they said "That'll make jaws drop!" or "That will make people laugh out loud!"

 

Or the day they filmed the chandelier scene, do you wonder if they though "THAT won't set off any shaky armed teenagers! We did our job, we filmed Frank wiping out an entire mansion full of people and I'm fairly certain it won't make anyone want to shoot anyone else when they watch it."

 

Great.

 

And Patton Oswald sucks. How is HE any sort of gauge for how to receive a fucking PUNISHER movie????????

 

GAH!!!!

 

 

 

Yes, the marketing department. Those bastards.

 

 

 

AH, yes. The secret is out. We don't bother to compete with well written films. Films with amazing cinematography and solid character acting alongside epic performances . . . that's not our bag.

 

 

 

Again with the offhanded choices. Can we just start calling Lexi "the offhanded director"

 

Well . . . I felt like calling her that at first, but then I changed my mind. Meh.

 

And Steve, with all due respect, I think you're wrong.

 

 

 

That's it. Obviously she lives her life in an offhanded fashion, and just goes with the flow. Commentary, no commentary, lets get toasted!

 

WHOOOOOHOOO!!

 

That'll help my image and reputation.

 

 

 

Well, she means it today. But next week. Meh.

 

"Who's Frank Castle again?"

 

Now that is what I call a tirade!

Key thing is I really can't disagree with anything you just wrote. In fact I agree with most of it quite whole-heartedly.

 

As much as my morbid curiosity wishes to listen to commentary on War Zone just to figure out what the hell they were thinking, I can't bring myself to drop any cash on any of the DVD's... though that single DVD cover looks good. Nor can I bring myself to view the film once more either. I watched the 2004 one in the theaters 3 times, but I only saw this one once and wished that I hadn't (even though the trailers for it were already turning me off from seeing it I had to give it a shot since it was a Punisher film).

 

This is now the third comic book movie that I saw in the theaters that I wish I hadn't (if you're curious the other 2 were Spawn and Batman & Robin... boy were those bad days).

 

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And Patton Oswald sucks. How is HE any sort of gauge for how to receive a fucking PUNISHER movie????????

 

GAH!!!!

 

I think Patton Oswalt is pretty funny and apparently his new movie at Sundance Big Fan is supposed to be really good.

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Oswalt is just a realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly avid comic book collector and fan of all things comic book. When he had that comedy show, they showed him making multiple stops at comic shops along with some other comedians he had toured with.

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Guest AdminGuyX

Yes, I couldn't help myself. Like I said, I was tired and cranky. Certainly not something that's common for me, I'm just really sick of reading this kind of stuff from Lexi.

 

 

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Though I to have enjoyed Oswalt's stand-up it doesn't mean that his okay of War Zone some how exonorates the movie from its abundant failings.

If he, as a fan of the character, did indeed enjoy the movie then good for him.

I unfortunately did not enjoy the film in the least.

Its also a bit sad that Alexander uses his review as a way of saying "He gets it. Why don't you?"

A bit aggrivating really.

 

Also... I sitll feel that both the 2004 The Punisher and The Punisher: War Zone could have greatly benefited from a more continual voice over narration from the character, just like Frank's running internal thoughts in the comics on why he's doing what he's doing. War Zone needed it far more to me as unlike with Tom Jane I never felt like I saw much going on in Stevenson's mind. His eyes and face just always seems so impassive. With Jane I always felt like there was something going on in his head when they focused on his face (it usually in the actor's eyes for me).

 

Stevenson looked the part and played the violent part well just not much on the rest of the character (outside the graveyard/flasback sequence).

I still really think Jane played the overall part in all its aspects better.

I also preferred the more... stylized(?)... violence of the 2004 film. It felt more like the older comics where they pushed the boundaries of the ratings/restrictions without completely going over the line. The current comics seem to have lost something for me since there really aren't much in the way of restrictions for the MAX run.

The "Oh my God!" moments are not what sells a movie form me and nor a comic book... it never really did. And its really sad and disturbing that Alexander apparently saw that as the key part of the comics.

 

My biggest problem in the end is that I just cannot agree with Lexi Alexander's interpretation of the character, and the more she tells people what her view on him was the more pissed off with her I become.

(Vicous cycle isn't it ;) ).

 

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Guest AdminGuyX

Well put. Those are my feelings in a nutshell too, and without the geeky fanboy temper tantrum I posted.

 

:)

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