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Tim Bradstreet

The Punisher: WarZone

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That whole "Marvel Independent projects" fiasco isn't very certifiable anyhow. The Incredible Hulk is still under the control of Universal and Valhalla, and Iron Man is being distributed by Paramount. If Warzone fails and I think it will, the Punisher will be in cinematic limbo for at least 10 years. No studio will wanna associate with Frank Castle if it doesn't work this time around. Batman was out of business for creative purposes 8 years, and Superman for 18.

 

-TL

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Lot of Jane bashing over there, though not in that particular thread.

Lots of opinions being thrown around with not much basis in fact.

Like the thread topic itself, Jane disses Stevenson, which was never really the case, in spite of what people want to believe.

 

- tb

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Dude I'm sick of Marvel selling the rights to there own characters, and they have no control of them really much.

They should be the ones pulling the strings on there own characters.

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Marvel may rent the options on these characters to other studios but that doesn't mean they don't have any control.

Far from it.

 

- TB

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Marvel may rent the options on these characters to other studios but that doesn't mean they don't have any control.

Far from it.

 

- TB

 

Well thats good. Just spitballing here but why do they let certain changes happen to some of there story lines in the movies then? But The answer is usually financial issues.

 

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But if Marvel isn't doing anything drastic to the new punisher movie, then maybe they like what they see, in which case it might be good.

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Wow, this is an interesting thread. I've certainly learned a lot about the new Punisher just in reading the last few pages. I gotta admit that I haven't really followed much about the new one since I heard that Thomas wasn't going to be in it. All I know about it really is what I've heard other fans say and what Thomas has said about why he chose not to do it. But it's fascinating to hear everyone's opinions about the new movie and Ray Stevenson, and such.

 

I'm not a big fan of making sequels just for the sake of making sequels. I think if there is a story to be told, and it's done right and well, then it could be worth it. That being said, I like the idea of what kwiat skye said about seeing the evolution of the character over the course of several movies. That might have been interesting to see. But I applaud Thomas for having the strength of his convictions and the integrity to stand up for himself, and the character, and the fans, when he felt that the studio was doing them all a disservice.

 

Perhaps in a few years, like Connery, we may see Thomas onscreen again as Frank Castle, but hopefully only if it is the kind of story that does justice to everyone. And no, I am not changing my opinions that I stated in the Pirates of the Caribbean thread. I never said I was against sequels. I said I didn't like the idea of Hollywood churning out one movie after another until they've destroyed what made the movie worth watching in the first place.

 

 

Mediumfan

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When I heard that it wasn't actually Lexi Alexander but an impostor posting, I was so filled with rage that I threw some random guy through a window.

 

His face now looks like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

Funny how life imitates art, huh?

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Street, its fuckin disturbing, reading the shit being written about TJ over in the SHH Board. Last time I was there (to steal some Jackman Wolverine photos) I browsed through the threads a bit, and was surprised to find little or NO support for Jane's Punisher situation. Its almost as if the people over there are just using Ray Stevenson as an element of war against our comrade Jane. I also cannot understand why they feel his comments about Stevenson were in any way cheap or small. I don't think TJ has to dislike this "new" Punisher, but I also don't think he has to like him. He seems to be indifferent about him. Unconcerned about his presence. I personally would pursue frontal assault tactics towards my so-called "replacement" the same way Anthony Hopkins did with that nobody they hired to play a younger Hannibal.

 

Who here would EMBRACE the man takin the job you publicly loved which you were forced to walk away from for WHATEVER reason?

 

I myself would not embrace, but rather...

 

-TL

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You know how it goes, once the bandwagon begins the mob mentality takes over.

It's another classic case of internet rumor mill and soap opera bullshit at work. You get spoon fed little bits of official info and fill in the blanks with speculation, prognostication, wishful thinking, and facts or truth be damned.

People believe what they want to believe.

 

Right now the climate is shifting towards Ray, cause he's got the new Punisher movie coming out. Why should anyone give a toss about Tom who is no longer a part of the equation? Then you get a snippet of an interview where The Punisher gets brought up for the 1000th time and it's clear that the cat is just tired of fielding the questions. I know for a fact Tom wasn't intentionally dissing Ray, he just doesn't know who he is, and why should HE care since he has moved on?

I've mentioned Ray to Tom before since I've been such a huge fan of Rome, but Tom had no idea who he was since he didn't watch it. It's not sour grapes. That's just silly.

 

And the incredible amount of inaccuracy surrounding why Tom left is just complete buffoonery.

People actually take this disinformation as law and believe this stuff outright.

One guy throws out his opinion like he actually KNOWS something and you get a dozen posts in response from people buying the sheer speculation hook line and sinker. To be fair, not EVERYONE is selling TJ down the river. But it's startling how this stuff can snowball until it becomes popular thinking.

 

The truth of it is this. Tom is not behind the film, that's why he dropped out. And he did so because he had the right to.

He protected himself like anyone else would in his situation. HE didn't believe in the script or the movie LGF/Marvel wanted to make. He had script approval in his contract and he exercised his legal right to get out of the boat because HE felt it was sinking. His decision to leave was not frivolous, he agonized over it for weeks. Basically it came down to differing creative visions, plain and simple.

 

I respect his decision. He made the right call for himself and the kind of career he wants.

And I respect the studio for rallying and not giving up on the film after their star left.

Landing Ray was HUGE.

Speaking purely as a Punisher fan - If they had to replace Tom, they couldn't have done better.

I don't think Ray has ever been a lead in a film. It's a tremendous opportunity for him.

I hope he did his homework ;)

 

- TB

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Guest FADoss

Amen Tim,

 

Again, I just wish there was some crystal ball (because I KNOW Tom CANNOT and WOULD NOT talk about it due to professionalism and confidentiality agreements) to find out what it was that made him jump ship. Having not met the guy, but following him on these boards, I can only assume that it was something major.

 

However, I think it would be real easy for others (AND I DO NOT MEAN ME AT ALL) to think he was a crybaby actor who didn't get his way.

 

See, as much as we can blame the studio because we're all Jane fans, its VERY easy to turn the tables on Jane in a different forum. In a way, I hope it's a crappy movie. Because if it isn't my internal voice will instantly ask, "Tom...WTF?"

 

Frederic

 

On another note...was that not the real Lexi or did she say some shit she shouldn't have? :D

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Guest AdminGuyX

Don't think people aren't lurking here, and then posting on other boards about how we're all kissing Jane's ass. They are. And it's easy to see why folks would think that too.

 

It's a never ending point of interest to me how people behave online, good and bad. I'm a psychology buff though, so I'm forever analyzing human behavior. The field hasn't quite caught up to the internet yet, but over the next 5 years I think that "internet behavior therapy" might happen.

 

Look at the AICN talkbacks for the bottom of the barrel though. Man, those people spew venom for everything. I mean, they could post that "anyone who leaves a talkback message wins $1000" and those fuckers would find a reason to hate it!!

 

But I've noticed that the SHH boards have a fair share of assholes too. I don't spend a whole lot of time over there though, because I don't really care for super heroes. I don't get any joy from talking about Superman's short shorts, or why Savage Dragon's fin is too big.

 

hahahaha. ;)

 

You know what I mean.

 

 

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But I've noticed that the SHH boards have a fair share of assholes too. I don't spend a whole lot of time over there though, because I don't really care for super heroes. I don't get any joy from talking about Superman's short shorts, or why Savage Dragon's fin is too big.

 

hahahaha. ;)

 

You know what I mean.

 

It would never occur to me to look for info about The Punisher there. Frank Castle isn't a super hero.

 

 

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Guest FADoss

Yeah, on that net psychology...forever ago, back when I was still planning on being a sociology professor and applying my degree...we talked about masks. Masks, to include the helmets of knights, bank robber masks, KKK hoods all allow people to do and say things they normally wouldn't do. Anonymity makes us superhuman to an extent.

 

In person, half the "arguments" I have on the net would never take place. I'm not much for initiating conflict. I can discuss stuff, but the minute I realize the other person is a fuckwit...well...I move on. I really get tickled at talk of beating each other up and crap on the internet. It's amazing what you can do when you can hide behind a keyboard.

 

As for the Punisher being a super hero...that's splitting hair semantics. He's a costumed crime fighter....a vigilante. That pretty much qualifies him for the Superhero gig. I mean all that spandex (Kevlar does NOT fit that tight kids...take my word for it). Sure you can argue that he's not technically a super hero, but in the eyes of most folks he fits the bill. I mean Wolverine is labelled as a superhero too, yet he's nothing like Spiderman or Superman.

 

Another thing I thought of in regard to Tom as the Punisher. I think it's a lot like Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. Hugh is too tall and too "pretty", BUT he nailed the role and now I can't see anyone else in the part. However, if they changed up Wolverine's I would still check it out....though Hugh would be missed. Same thing with Tom. Once I saw the film, I was hooked. Now...I'll miss him, but I'm willing to see what Ray has to offer.

 

Oh, and the Spike TV stuff, funny as fuck, but I can definitely understand how it was taken as bitterness. If you're in the public eye...intoxications and cameras NEVER go well together. I do feel a need to point out that neither Tom nor Ray is actually the Punisher. He is a comic book character with so many fucked up backstories and timelines that pretty much anything is allowed. Comics are fucked up because of it. I mean, Nick Fury is black now. WTF? Peter Parker has been in his twenties for 30+ years...nevermind Aunt May. Ice Man, who is the same age as Cyclops routinely gets reimagined as a young kid (same with Johnny Storm). Different writers and artists are always fucking up continuity.

 

I mean who remembers this shit?

PunisherBlack03.jpg

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Almost every "ENTERTAINMENT" type forum out there has a thread for PUNISHER, WAR ZONE. And i have to say that most are really fucked up. We may bitch and whine and call each other names now and then but I think for the most part we get the facts right. On one forum that I won't mention...fuck it...ACE COMICS...they have actually posted fan made Punisher videos and are calling them TEASERS and TRAILERS. Shit if the ones I saw on that thread were the real thing I WOULD NEVER GO SEE THIS. Just shows how much misinformation is out there, but also just how much Tom was loved in the role. Vertually every thread I have been on speaks of him with respect as the ONE TRUE PUNISHER.

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Hey, I don't want to bong on the Shh boards. Those guys do a good job over there.

Like I said, it's just the rumor mill soap opera bullshit I could live without, and I can live without it by not reading it.

 

"In a way, I hope it's a crappy movie. Because if it isn't my internal voice will instantly ask, "Tom...WTF?"

 

I'm not trying to single you out Fred 'cause I've seen this thought in more than a few places. . .

I don't believe that's a fair way to look at this. There were two climates involved. With Tom, and after Tom. And it seems that folks re-assessed the gameplan somewhat after Tom left. Lexi is a big part of the direction the film WENT. And Lexi wasn't a part of the picture when Tom made his decision. So it's easy for people to lose sight of the chain of events and draw a conclusion. It's unrealistic to judge Tom's decision based on whether you like the new film or not. A lot can change when you have a new director and new star. This new film is simply NOT the same animal it was prior to Tom leaving.

 

Tom is out, no need to second guess his decision.

We should judge the new film whether it succeeds or fails, on it's own merits.

- TB

 

 

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WOW Doss. You think Thomas Jane is too pretty, you think Hugh Jackman is too pretty, who the fuck do you think isn't pretty? Let me guess - Christian Bale?

 

-TL

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Guest AdminGuyX

Super Hero Hype is actually one of my favorite websites to read news. I just don't frequent their boards like I do here.

 

You know, before Hugh Jackman, they had cast Dougray Scott: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0779084/ and he's much shorter than Jackman. I think the role would have been so much different with Scott in there, I can't even imagine what he would have brought to it, but I think it's safe to say, DIFFERENT, not better or worse.

 

Which is what I'm expecting of Ray.

 

Jackman ended up so committed to the character, and the man is so talented, he has very much "defined" the role on screen. Nothing else really mattered in the end. The Punisher is just a different situation.

 

Mind you, it was cool to see Wolverine and Batman in a film together that one time!! It was like . . . MAGIC!

 

I don't believe that's a fair way to look at this.

 

Gotta go with TB on this one Fred. Though I do understand what your point was! :)

 

TJ did what was right for him at the time, and I think it was a ballsy move. Personally I hope the new film is awesome, but at no time will I ever question why TJ walked away. If you're looking for an EXACT, DETAILED reason, you may as well get used to looking. I doubt we'll ever know (and really, is it our business to know those details?) beyond "It wasn't right for me". So be it.

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Man, I don't know where all this talk about pretty boys coming from. I always thought if you looked up pretty boy you'd see a picture of Justin Timberlake or Jude Law.

 

What is the world coming to?

 

Anyway, yes "The Prestige" very good movie. Well written film. Great acting (Michael Caine, Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman). The film is flawless and the fuckin' ending has made me come to so many conclusions that I have watched the film over a dozen times. But hey. We're talking about The Punisher.

 

As far as looks goes I don't see how Ray is any more of a man than Tom. I mean, shit, I remember reading an interview with Clint Eastwood and how when he first started out on Raw Hide people were saying he was pretty. Lay that baby to bed.

 

The Punisher is looking alright but not great. I mean I'm keeping track of various films but top on the list is The Dark Knight and the remake of Funny Games.

 

Anyway, that's beside the point. I'm just hoping they don't make Frank Castle have a damn love life, a girlfriend, etc. That would sink the fuckin' boat either way.

 

JO

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Guest FADoss
Hey, I don't want to bong on the Shh boards. Those guys do a good job over there.

Like I said, it's just the rumor mill soap opera bullshit I could live without, and I can live without it by not reading it.

 

"In a way, I hope it's a crappy movie. Because if it isn't my internal voice will instantly ask, "Tom...WTF?"

 

I'm not trying to single you out Fred 'cause I've seen this thought in more than a few places. . .

I don't believe that's a fair way to look at this. There were two climates involved. With Tom, and after Tom. And it seems that folks re-assessed the gameplan somewhat after Tom left. Lexi is a big part of the direction the film WENT. And Lexi wasn't a part of the picture when Tom made his decision. So it's easy for people to lose sight of the chain of events and draw a conclusion. It's unrealistic to judge Tom's decision based on whether you like the new film or not. A lot can change when you have a new director and new star. This new film is simply NOT the same animal it was prior to Tom leaving.

 

Tom is out, no need to second guess his decision.

We should judge the new film whether it succeeds or fails, on it's own merits.

- TB

 

True...though if they were willing to re-work it once Lexi got on board...why not a re-attack with Jane? In hindsight, I agree with your assessment. I'm interested to hear Tom's thoughts on the film once it's released. Of course...that will be a bit.

 

James...I said I thought he was too pretty for the role...not that he was a pretty boy. There's a difference. Wolverine was primarily drawn for either Jack Nicholson or Clint Eastwood when he was rendered in the likeness of a given actor. Neither are pretty boys and both are rugged enough for the role. Maybe what I'm looking for is that weathered look.

 

Frederic

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