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Tim Bradstreet

The Punisher

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Hi there everyone , my first post. Pleased to meet you all!

 

Just like too say am a huge Punisher Fan , and really looking forward to Greg Rucka's run on the Marvel Universe 616 Punisher starting in August. His Queen and Country comic is just amazing.

 

Also would just like to say is anyone else finding Aarons direction on PunisherMAX , in regards Frank and his Family troubling?

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Hello, Beef and welcome to the boards.

 

I hear you on the Max book. I hope Aaron has put a lot of thought into this next run and not just going for shock value. Not too many writers have tackled tapping into Frank's head and throwing him off balance. Aaron has done some amazing work, but he's still not there with Punisher yet.

 

I don't think he's doing a bad job, he's just not at a SCALPED level yet. This might be the arc to do it.

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I hear you on the Max book. I hope Aaron has put a lot of thought into this next run and not just going for shock value. Not too many writers have tackled tapping into Frank's head and throwing him off balance. Aaron has done some amazing work, but he's still not there with Punisher .

 

Good point, thing that worries me is that Aaron has The Punisher in the MAX series actually wanting in some Unconcsious way his family out of the way, be it dead, or divorced from them .

 

This for me takes away from the core of Franks character, and if not handled right destory Ennis's good work that went before...

 

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I think this new arc will pick up from where Ennis' BORN left off. At least that's the vibe I get. Even there, Frank seemed a bit off in the last pannels with his family. While I don't think Aaron would be bold enough to outright have Frank willfully put his family in danger as an excuse to go on a killing spree, I do think that he has brought up a good question: With all the training, why didn't he sence something was amiss?

 

There are easy answers to this. They were caught off guard, no weapons, ect... but I like that fact that Aaron is going to take it to the next level and do some more exploring on the key moment that made Frank the Punisher, which also happens to be nothing more than a footnote to most Punisher stories. I see your concerns, but I think this will be a good ride.

 

Also, it'll be cool to see what Aaron does with Frank in 'nam. Aaron's first major story was The Other Side, a Vietnam war story and his cousin is Gustav Hasford, author of The Short-Timers, the basis for Full Metal Jacket.

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I find it's easier to just enjoy the arc nowadays. I cant be bothered to nitpik the continuity.

Throwing Frank's possible PTS into his reason to be the Punisher makes sense to me. Which is what, IMO, in a sad messed up way, I think Jason's doing. Saying Frank wanted to be the Punisher before his family was killed and once they were gone he had no reason to continue to bury the feelings and urges he was having.

Of course the villian can turn around and say it anyway he likes making it sound like Frank doesnt mind that his family was killed doesn't make it so, just a twisted outside observation.

Jason's just a great writer. I read everything he does.

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I've switched over to buying trade paper backs only, so I'm not really on the up and up. But, from what you guys are saying, I think it's an interesting direction to go with the character, and kinda surprising that it hasn't been done before with the character.

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I've switched over to buying Trade paper backs only, so I'm not really on the up and up. But, from what you guys are saying, I think it's an interesting direction to go with the character, and kinda surprising that it hasn't been done before with the character.

 

 

Trouble with this I find, is that, as a long time Punisher fan, I have always liked that Franks actions are usually far more justified, he is fighting a War, in order to help other people, by removing/killing the criminals.

 

if the Punisher really only kills just because he is kill happy and not because he wants stop what happened to him happening to anyone else, It I think cheapings his character and is a big step away from the core of the character for me and makes Frank Castle just an other criminal, more skilled at Killing then other criminals....

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I can see your angle, but I don't look at it that way. With all the versions of Frank out there, I find MAX the closest to how I envison the Punisher. Starting with BORN, you see that Frank has no problem taking out the "bad guys", including the troops in his unit. Does that make him kill happy? Depends on who you ask, I think not. I see it as him being a guy who is not affraid to see people doing evil things and making that person dissapear because when it come down to it, no one else is going to take care of it.

 

As for what Aaron is going for, I guess we'll have to see, but the set-up is good. I think there is a part of Frank that couldn't stand to sit around at home watching the news and seeing criminals running around free. A part of him knew that, and I think he knew that having a family and being the Punisher would not work out, weather it was dealing the balancing act of family/vigilante or dealing with someone trying to kill them/using them as hostages.

 

That being said, I don't see Frank as the type to just let his family get killed, but I do think there could have been a moment of hesitation. Not nessicarily intentional, but a moment of hesitation, and that split second is all that was needed to let his guard down.

 

I'm still on issue 12, not sure if 13 is out, so let me know if I'm missing something.

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I agree. And Jason's not saying Frank is "this way." He's got someone suggesting it. He's exploring an alternative point of view. In the end it may be just that. Frank sitting on the couch thinking he'd rather have his family of course, even though sitting home watching the news would have made him grit his teeth and have all manner of fucked up thoghts running through his mind.

Could Frank have realized he was capable of all this crazy shit when he was in the service? I guess that's a no brainer, but Aaron's story may be exploring THAT journey in it's own way.

 

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I agree. And Jason's not saying Frank is "this way." He's got someone suggesting it. He's exploring an alternative point of view. In the end it may be just that. Frank sitting on the couch thinking he'd rather have his family of course, even though sitting home watching the news would have made him grit his teeth and have all manner of fucked up thoghts running through his mind.

Could Frank have realized he was capable of all this crazy shit when he was in the service? I guess that's a no brainer, but Aaron's story may be exploring THAT journey in it's own way.

 

Yeah, from what I've read about, it seem more like making Frank doubt himself.

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Anyone get issue 13 ? Of Punisher MAX like, very good , none of 'wackeyness' of the Bullseye arc thank fuck, the story is really grabbing me.

 

 

Dillons art is really at his best, that lost haunted look he draws in the young Frank Castle's eyes is just great...

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Just finished the Frank arc in the MAX series. I liked were they took it, it gives a whole new dimention to Frank. I also picked up issue #17. Not sure about the MAX version of Electra yet. I've like the character, esspecially the things Miller and Bendis did with her. Too early to decide on what Aaron has planned.

 

The regular MU has another Punisher title that came out. I was a bit hessitant, but after the first issue, I like what they're doing. A big problem for most writers on the Punisher is trying to figure out how to deal with Frank. A few have nailed it, a lot fail at it. The last two MU titles failed horribly. Rucca seems to have found a way around it. Instead of following the Punisher, it follows two detectives and their dealings with the Punisher. I will say the detectives remind me a lot of Pitt and Freeman in Se7en, but it's not bad. It seems to work. As for the Punisher, we don't get the "back story", Rucca assumes we already know it, so he moves on. Frank is a bit more modern, using high-tech gadgets to assist him, but nothing out of line. He also looks a bit younger, a benifit of skipping the back story. The art is pretty good too. I like the distressed look of the skull. In the promos for the new book, I wasn't sold on it, but it works in the book. Deffinatly worth checking out.

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Well, sad to say it but Punisher MAX is ending with issue #22. Apparently there's a big change up coming for the whole MAX next year, with Ennis and Parlov doing an on going Fury MAX comic, though I'm interested in seeing where this new planned direction will take character, that is if anything is planned at all after Aaron's run.

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Even if planned, it seems odd that they would finish the book after 22 issues. Punisher being my favorite chacter from one of the Big 2 companies, it pisses me off to think that 10 years from now, we'll probably have over 20 volumes of Punisher sereies. I just wish they could figure this out instead of restarting every year or two.

 

As for Fury MAX, I'm looking forward to that. I wonder if Clooney really did back off from tackleing Fury on film. It would be a bit funny and odd considering From Dusk til Dawn or even his character in Burn After Reading was not all squeeky clean either.

 

Tim, you need to get the Fury cover job!

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Well it's a planned ending in that it's the conclusion to the whole Kingpin arc. Aaron planned to end that particular arc with #22, and has said he had more stories lined up after it, but now it looks like Marvel/MAX has different plans.

 

Have your read the Fury MAX mini-series? It's probably Ennis at his most Ennis-y, he takes the Arseface concept one step further with a character called Fuckface.

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I really liked Aaron's run on Punisher. The best thing he's done outside of Scalped I think. I think they are starting to stretch the Dude kind of thin though. God he's writing like 4 or 5 books now? I don't know how you keep that quality up when your spread that thin.

I LOVE the Rucka book so far but I am a Big Rucka fan. Big fan of his novels more than his comics actually.

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I think the only ongoing series he's doing now are Punisher MAX, Scalped and The Incredible Hulk. Also, Scalped is going to be coming to an end soon too, he plans to end it with #60.

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He's got an X Book too. Had a X mini, now he's doing a X on going. Wolverine and the Xmen or something with Bachalo. But back to the Punisher!

 

I was worried when the solicits said Rucka was putting Frank deep into the Marvel U.

I thought a street level writer like Rucka (I know he's done his share of super hero stuff but he really knocks it out of the park with the street level guys) and the Punisher, two great tastes going great together, but we're going to have to deal with Thor and freakin Iron Man an shit. Dammit!

But the book is really great so far.

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Here's hoping they all come to their senses before a Pilot is made with Dexter-lite concept.

 

I don't have a problem sticking the character deep within the Marvel universe, that's where he started and prospered for decades, though not without the occasional bumps in the road. I read what Rucka has planned, and I'm digging the direction, with having Castle reaches the point his profile becomes too high and stop treating him just as an inconvenience in the MU.

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You know one thing that has kinda annoyed me with the MAX, is how it is generally spelled as Punishermax. It just bugs me.

 

Anyway here are the covers for #21 and #22, I don't think things are going to end well for Frank this time around.

 

pm21.jpg

 

pm22.jpg

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Just picked up the last issue. Frank is dead, at least in the MAX title. I'm sure he will be back in another incarnation, just as long as it's not Frankencastle ;-)

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