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sidewaysgaze

Heath Ledger · 1979 - 2008

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Guest FADoss
There's still speculation Doss about Cobain. From people that knew him and how he loved his daughter they still say it's unlikely that he killed himself. I'm not goin' to argue with anyone, I'm just saying whether it be suicide or accidental they should be respected for how they lived either way.

 

JO

 

My personal view on Cobain is that he overdosed and someone made it look like a suicide because he had said he didn't want to die as an overdose. Not sure how accurate the reports I heard were about the level of drugs found in his system, but again...he was sporting a SERIOUS Heroin problem around the time of his death. Doesn't really fit with the image of loving father.

 

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My personal view on Cobain is that he overdosed and someone made it look like a suicide because he had said he didn't want to die as an overdose. Not sure how accurate the reports I heard were about the level of drugs found in his system, but again...he was sporting a SERIOUS Heroin problem around the time of his death. Doesn't really fit with the image of loving father.

Yes. But I've known several people, relatives included, that love their family and sported some pretty serious drug habits, and that's simply what they are. Either way it doesn't matter, when someone dies they don't come back. Whether it be of an overdose or accidental or murder it simply doesn't matter in the end because the artists are in fact dead. I'm just saying that in the end it's best to look at their work and seperate it from their life. It's like painters, writers, musicians, etc. People deal with things differently than others. But in the end it's best just to honor their memory while they were here.

 

JO

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Guest FADoss

I think looking at work separate from the person is dangerous. It may encourage folks to lead a dangerous and destructive lifestyle. I really think you need to EARN to have your memory honored.

 

Frederic

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I agree completely, JO. The events of someone's death should not overshadow their life. Honor their life, respect their memory, and let them rest in peace.

 

Not to be too judgemental, Doss, but just because someone is in the spotlight does not make them any less human. And yes, they do know that the career they have chosen comes with a price, but that does not give US as fans and observers the right to sit back and make judgements on them just because they're under a microscope by the media. Very few of us can claim to have lived a life free of mistakes and troubles, but the majority of us haven't had to live our lives with someone watching our every move. Just because we can see their flaws doesn't give us the right to judge them. And just because they are celebrities and are in the spotlight doesn't mean they are going to be perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. Some more than others, and some worse than others, but it is not up to us to point fingers and criticize. That is what I meant by us sacrificing our morals for the age of the internet. There used to be a time when someone died, that their death was treated with a degree of respect and decorum, and with consideration for their families and their memory. But no more. It's shameful that we have sacrificed so much of ourselves in this society and there is no moral code anymore.

 

And despite all the "truths" that may be reported about Heath Ledger's death, even by CNN (and they have been guilty of reporting gossip too), no one really knows the real truth about his death. So I say just let him rest in peace and try not to diminish his memory by listening to all the junk that is being reported by the so-called media. No matter what the actual events surrounding his death were, the media is going to spin it to make it more sensational, and if that means making up lies, then they are certainly not above it. I say let his life speak for itself. And don't let his death diminish the way he lived.

 

 

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Guest FADoss

That's kind of silly. I suppose no one knows the real truth of the Holocaust either...so we shouldn't talk about that either.

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Doss, man we're not starting anything on here. This is a board to remember Ledger's life. It's for blessings, admirations, and appreciation. We don't need to bring up gossip on this board and tarnish it like the others. So let's all just appreciate Ledger's work and seperate it from his life. Look at his films, his legacy, his methods, etc. Leave the other to drift in the wind. We get enough lies on the news. It's just a thought. I'd rather remember him for who he was in the films and his characters much like that of James Dean and other great actors who have been taken too soon.

 

JO

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Here is a tasteful account of the events from CNN. Nothing indicating drug abuse. Odd that the autopsy came back inconclusive. Not sure if anyone has a background that can shed light on this here.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/...iref=newssearch

 

I think that just means they could not find a physical reason and have to wait for the toxicology/drug/medication screening results to come in. Apparently, that takes a few days.

 

I see no reason to speculate. Let the folks do their jobs.

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That's kind of silly. I suppose no one knows the real truth of the Holocaust either...so we shouldn't talk about that either.

 

 

Apples and oranges, Doss.

 

I'm talking about people spreading every little bit of dirty gossip that they hear, and tarnishing the memory of someone, rather than just remembering their life and moving on. The man was a great actor. He died tragically young. Don't let rumors and speculation destroy all that his family and friends have left of him, and that is his memory.

 

Like JO said, let's just pay our respects, and let the other stuff go.

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I heard from my friend that he heard on the radio that jack nicholson made a comment on Heath as Joker...

 

He said something like "I should have warned him before..." or something lie that..

and if you still don't get what that means.

Maybe Jack was doing the same thing Heath was doing to get into character, But jack knew everything, and He was probelly going psyco.

Maybe the joker is a cursed character for anyone to play.

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Guest FADoss

I'm all for remembering his work folks, but I'm not the one who brought up all the other rumors...or really started a discussion on them. If you want to make statements and have them go unchallenged, let me know, but I thought this was a discussion forum.

 

As for the Holocaust statement, it's not apples and oranges. As far as severity and global importance, YES they differ dramatically. However, my point is that ALL events of historical importance (to include the deaths of role models such as the young Heath Ledger) are comprised of physical evidence and eyewitness accounts. To say that we can't know the "truth" so let it go is fairly absurd. Now, if you believe that the media shouldn't be prying into his private life then that's a different argument.

 

However, I'll say again, when you become a big name movie actor and make huge dollars doing it...and date supermodels etc. you KNOW going in that the media is going to follow you AND that your privacy is going to be forfeit. Yet actors continue to be surprised when they are constantly in the news...ESPECIALLY when you die at TWENTY EIGHT and at the height of your career. And if he weren't an item for the media to pay attention to, his film listing would probably look more similar to mine...as would his bank account.

 

As far as his work, amazing actor. As far as his death, if it were accidental and had nothing to do with drug abuse then horribly tragic, but IF evidence turns up that he was abusing drugs and this led to his death (appears unlikely when referencing the CNN article I linked above) then he should be made an example of. That example is as follows:

 

Look at this amazingly talented, good-looking, wealthy, father of a beautiful little girl who had his pock of women and how he SQUANDERED HIS LIFE ON DRUGS!!! Does a hell of a lot more than any DARE program or retarded anti-drug commercial.

 

Celebrating the work of a man without taking into context his character is DANGEROUS and illogical.

 

That said, I HOPE AND PRAY that this was simply an accident and Heath deserves to be remembered as a great and tragic loss to the film community.

 

If you don't agree, feel free to respond and we can continue to argue about it...OR ignore me and I'll quit defending my viewpoint.

 

Frederic

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The Norman Bates character (Psycho) drove Anthony Perkins into insanity. Sometimes a role can consume a man, but that may not always be a bad thing though. In the case of Wolverine, it turned Hugh Jackman into a bodybuilder with an American accent. In Heath's case, he may have found that dark place within that made The Joker so menacing, but it may have had a negative effect on his own [real] life. I see too much fury in Heath's Joker. Some of that fury had to be his.

 

heathledgerisjokerhe3.jpg

 

-TL

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Doss, if you want to have a discussion about his life and career, go ahead, but indulging in gossip-mongering and speculating as to the circumstances surrounding his death is utterly tasteless and tacky. And your opinions as to his life being an open book just because he is a celebrity are just that, opinions, which I do not happen to share. IF his death was drug-related, which NO ONE, (especially on this board) knows for a fact yet, then let us learn from that and let it be an example. But UNTIL it is known that there was anything illicit about his death, then we should refrain from speculating and soiling his memory. That's all I'm saying.

 

You can feel free to keep defending your position all you want. That's your prerogative. Just as it is mine to defend my position. And Doss, I'm not singleing you out here. My comments are directed toward EVERYONE, not just those on this board, who are spreading baseless and unsubstantiated rumors, particularly those in the media, and those gossip bloggers who are using this as fodder for their rumor mills.

 

 

Below is the most intelligent, compassionate, and sensible piece of journalism that I have read since the news of Heath Ledger's passing. THIS is what the media, and everyone SHOULD be doing, and saying about his death. I have never been a fan of Star Jones, but my respect for her has increased tenfold since reading this. Thanks to Star for saying what I've been thinking. Click on the link to see what I mean.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/star-jones/r...ad_b_83142.html

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Any rumor spread without basis in fact is, in fact, baseless.

 

I'm not saying you're spreading rumors. I'm just saying we shouldn't indulge in that kind of talk until we know the real facts. Just honor the man's life and avoid speculation about his death.

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Guest FADoss
Any rumor spread without basis in fact is, in fact, baseless.

 

I'm not saying you're spreading rumors. I'm just saying we shouldn't indulge in that kind of talk until we know the real facts. Just honor the man's life and avoid speculation about his death.

 

 

The CNN article I posted is referencing eye witness accounts and physical evidence...which to most people is considered a basis in fact. Just saying...

 

Frederic

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The CNN article I posted is referencing eye witness accounts and physical evidence...which to most people is considered a basis in fact. Just saying...

 

Frederic

 

 

 

Everything that has been "reported" to date has been based on supposed "eyewitness accounts and physical evidence", and much of that has been disproved, or recanted by the very reporting sources, like the NY Times and CNN and CBS news, so I would put very little, if any, faith in what any of them are saying until the truth is known. And if you'll notice, there are people now crawling out of the woodwork, who are eager to get their name in the news, who are telling stories about the man, none of which have been proven to be true. So most of what is being told about the man's life and death is probably being made up or exaggerated just to sensationalize the story.

 

I'm just saying, stop focusing on the details of his death and honor his life and memory by showing a little freaking respect and common decency. For Chrissake, the man isn't even buried yet, and already his memory is being torn to shreds. Are you a freakin' journalist now or what? Is it your "job" to report on this man's death? Let it go already.

 

Leave it alone and let him rest in peace. Show a little respect.

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What's sad is now alot of his films are getting discontinued and taken off the shelves and the the companies are goin' to re-release them to cash in on his death. This just makes me sick. I can't believe they would sink that low but then again, it's Hollywood.

 

JO

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Guest FADoss

Mediumfan,

 

Did you know the man? How do you know it isn't true. I said a few posts ago that if you would ignore me, I'd quit talking about it. I don't think I'm being disrespectful at all. As for people coming out of the woodwork with lies trying to get in the news, there is a very warm place in hell waiting for them.

 

As for the truth, it is VERY important. On to your statement about the reporting, you seem to not believe what the media is reporting unless they are refuting what you don't want to believe. You say that the news is junk, but then site NY Times and CNN as good counters to "fabrications". It's either one or the other.

 

Bottom line, your argument is fairly illogical.

 

 

James,

 

That's despicable. I think those folks will also find a nice spot in hell with plenty of Heath Ledger Commemorative DVDs to keep them company.

 

Frederic

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Autographed photos of Heath as the Joker are going for over $100 online. This will also apply to a great deal of all other Ledger Joker merchandise. The idea of re-releasing his DVDs in order to make some unexpected cash isn't fairly new: There are 5 different Steve McQueen Collections, 3 James Dean Collections, 10 Humphrey Bogart Collections, and the list goes on. In the end, all those products are what keeps Heath alive long (or shortly) after his death.

 

heathledgerisjoker18jq9.jpg

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss

TL, another note, I think his DAUGHTER will get the residuals from the DVD re-releases...so it's probably good for his family in the longrun for the DVD releases. Not that the moguls were thinking about that. That's some signature by the way! Worse than mine even. One of these days I'll have to snag me up a Ledger auto for the Joker.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say this role is what killed him.

 

Frederic

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If it did, then its a greater reason for us to watch The Dark Knight. For a man to sacrifice himself to bring the Joker to life is truly heroic.

 

I'm sure his daughter will grow up saying "My dad was the Joker."

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss

A friend of mine on myspace wrote this. I think it's fitting to our discussion here:

 

 

 

A Dark Knight’s Tale: Can An Actor Be Possessed by a Role?

 

While the irresponsible press speculates and debates over what did or didn't kill Heath Ledger, I keep going back to an interview Heath did with The New York Times back in November.

 

In it, he talked about how playing Joker in the upcoming Batman film, "Dark Knight," had pretty much taken him to some disturbing places that he was having trouble letting go of when he left the set.

 

He admitted to taking Ambian, just one of the prescription drugs found at the scene of his death, saying that when the pill didn't help, he started increasing the dosage.

 

If you've read some of my previous blogs, I'm obviously not a huge fan of the pharmacutical/insurance industrial complex. I think the legal overdrugging of our society is out of control and shameful. But that's not what I'm pondering now.

 

What I'm wondering about is what effect the role he was playing had on his mindframe and how emotional roles affect any actor who may be at a susceptible point in his or her life.

 

It was just a couple of years ago when a really good actor named Benjamin Hendrickson committed suicide just hours after performing an emotional scene on the set of the CBS soap "As the World Turns." Hendrickson was a veteran of the stage ("The Elephant Man") and numerous acclaimed motion pictures (including the edgy indie "Spanking the Monkey") but had, in recent years, been plagued by personal tragedy (including the death of his mother).

 

The day of his suicide, Hendrickson shot a scene in which he sat by the bedside of an actress playing his TV daughter. When the actress' character died on-camera, Hendrickson turned in a performance that was so real, so gut-wrenching, and so raw, that the cast and crew working on his show were both mesmerized and made to feel a bit uncomfortable.

 

When they got the news the following day that he had blown his own brains out, they were doubly shaken.

 

We always hear about how cathartic acting can be. How it allows thespians the chance to exorcise personal demons and such. But I wonder, how often do actors literally get taken over by a character? How often do they lose themselves so fully in a role that they never return?

 

I'm not saying Joker killed Heath Ledger. Obviously, there were issues lying dormant inside his psyche, waiting for some experience to serve as a trigger. That led to his inability to sleep and a growing sense of anxiety. Yes, maybe his attempts to rectify those problems led to his death, but that's a whole other can of worms that I'll leave to wingnuts like Nancy Grace.

 

What I choose to contemplate is just where is the line between fiction and reality drawn and what effect does it have on those brave enough to cross over it.

 

I know a lot of actors are reading this. I'd be curious to get some insight from them.

 

Richard O'Sullivan, Filmmaker

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