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2 hours ago, Al. said:

I loved the way they built Ilus and prepared for s5, which will have a completly different atmosphere and I hope you'll like it better than s4 😉

I'm still completely hooked to the series 😋 Nicole also mentioned something cool would happen in S5. I believe "when the shit gets real" was her expression, or was it yours ? 😁 so I have hope and I have TJ as a director to look forward to.

I also bought Nemesis Game by the way, so that (by December), I'll be ahead of the series and will be able to follow the plot this time!

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Well, I suppose I ought to share a few thoughts with the group.  First off, just before anyone thinks otherwise, I really did enjoy S4 and the series as a whole is still head and shoulders above any other sci-fi on offer IMO.  There were just a few niggles that made it marginally less enjoyable - for one, as Ariane said, it felt like it could have done with a couple more episodes to explore some storylines a bit more fully, for example Bobbie's journey from upstanding Martian marine to basically aiding and abetting.  The beautiful thing about the first three seasons was that although there were several stories being played out at any one time, they were skilfully layered and interwoven so none of them overwhelmed any other one, whereas S4 felt a bit flat and one dimensional in comparison.  Also, for me the crew of the Roci worked as a team, because although each had their flaws, together they blended perfectly and I felt when they were split up into their own kind of side-stories something was lost.  I also missed the sheer spectacle of the battles in space with all the associated VFX of PDC's and rail guns, and the use of shadow and light working their way round various heavenly bodies (and I'm not referring to TJ here!!!).  I did enjoy the true resurrection of Miller though and his internal struggle with 'the assholes' that were trying to control him!  As I write however, we are currently rewatching the whole shebang (S1 - 4) so it might just gel together better this time.  If you can shed any more on all things S4 from the book perspective though, please feel free to share!

Still looking forward to S5 and hoping it does indeed 'get real'!! 😄

 

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5 hours ago, Gail said:

the use of shadow and light working their way round various heavenly bodies (and I'm not referring to TJ here!!!).

I like how you're a fan to the very tip of your fingernails! 🤣

5 hours ago, Gail said:

I did enjoy the true resurrection of Miller though and his internal struggle with 'the assholes' that were trying to control him!

Oh that was interesting! The first time he glitched and shouted it really took me by surprise and I was sitting on the edge of the couch, very awake. 

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I'm done with book 4 now, it was a good read as always, so much interesting action-reaction observations of the human behaviours under stress. I haven't read the novellas yet so I won't comment on what was added (the Bobbie arc, the Avasarsla arc, the Drummer/Ashford arc ... none of those was in the book).

I still believe that if you remove all the added topics above, you're left with ~5 episodes centered about the book. To me it's too short. I didn't get much answers about the "science", it was pretty much only "fiction", just as in the series. Which is too bad because the central character of Elvi could have been a lever to digress about possible evolution and chemical combinations found in life on a foreign planet. There were some hints, the chirality of the local molecules was pointed out several times.

What would REALLY interest me would be to understand why some aspects of the book have been changed. There are so many differences! Havelock, Basia, Naomi, Elvi, Wei, even Miller. Some changes are made to better please the audience, some other must have been based on technical reasons. I'll probably never know but I'd love to sit in the pre-production meetings!

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14 hours ago, Enaira said:

Which is too bad because the central character of Elvi could have been a lever to digress about possible evolution and chemical combinations found in life on a foreign planet. There were some hints, the chirality of the local molecules was pointed out several times.

Totally agree. I would have liked to learn more about it at that point.

As for Elvi, it's always disappointing to see that many interesting characters as Prax or Anna just disappear after their book. We don't see them after that, or very little. I hope the serie will correct that in some way, as they did a bit with Ashford and Drummer or Avasarala.

14 hours ago, Enaira said:

What would REALLY interest me would be to understand why some aspects of the book have been changed. There are so many differences! Havelock, Basia, Naomi, Elvi, Wei, even Miller. Some changes are made to better please the audience, some other must have been based on technical reasons. I'll probably never know but I'd love to sit in the pre-production meetings!

That would interest me as well! Maybe in some Q&A or interviews ^^ My theory is that they simplified all the Ilus plots in order to develop the other ones (especially Bobby's arc). And to introduce Marco Inara earlier, as he'll obviously have some importance later.

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Ha! By the way... why on Earth (or Ceres for that matter) is the book called "Cibola burn" and not "Cibola burns"? Please answer quickly so I can finally get some sleep 😉

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Hey Ariane - for the sake of your beauty sleep, I've just had a quick Google on your behalf.  The best I can come up with is that Cibola (apparently) is an ancient city in New Mexico that was fabled to be filled with gold which inspired a kind of gold rush, kind of like the rush to explore/exploit Ilus for it's supposed riches.  The 'burn' bit is a bit harder to pin down but could refer to the thrust of spacecraft (as in flip and burn) to illustrate the race towards the new horizons.

I didn't say I was happy with the explanation but it's a start - very happy to be corrected if you find anything better!

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By the way Ariane, I'm pleased to report that having watched S4 again (third time, as part of a MAJOR binge watch!), I enjoyed it much more.  Can't explain why, it still seems a bit flat and rushed compared to S1-3 but I 'got it' more than I had before.  And Thomas's input  as Miller was waaaaaay more enjoyable, especially when he was shouting at his 'former masters'!  😁

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7 hours ago, Gail said:

could refer to the thrust of spacecraft (as in flip and burn) to illustrate the race

Ha! Thank you Gail!

It's a noun, not a verb. Now I get it. I hadn't thought about "Flip and burn" but you must be right. The meaning is "the burn towards Cibola" 👍🏻

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7 hours ago, Gail said:

By the way Ariane, I'm pleased to report that having watched S4 again (third time, as part of a MAJOR binge watch!), I enjoyed it much more.  Can't explain why, it still seems a bit flat and rushed compared to S1-3 but I 'got it' more than I had before.  And Thomas's input  as Miller was waaaaaay more enjoyable, especially when he was shouting at his 'former masters'!  😁

😉 you're giving me ideas to start with S1 again...

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3 hours ago, Enaira said:

Ha! Thank you Gail!

It's a noun, not a verb. Now I get it. I hadn't thought about "Flip and burn" but you must be right. The meaning is "the burn towards Cibola" 👍🏻

Well let’s face it - we’re talking about science fiction with a nod towards mythology so I guess that’s as good an explanation as any!! 😁

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3 hours ago, Enaira said:

😉 you're giving me ideas to start with S1 again...

There are worse things you could do......😉

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RRRRRAwesomeness pure if you like technical details! Jeremy Benning speaking on lighting and camera choices for The Expanse. I could listen to him for hours!

 

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Great find Ariane - fascinating item plus some gratuitous shots of TJ (always welcome! 😉

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I've actually started S1 again now myself to go from there through to end of S4.

 

Finally 

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At last!!!!  😂
Interested to find out what your thoughts are on S4 🤔

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Almost there. Halfway through s3.

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Just now, Enaira said:

😋😉

I know ima gettin there lol

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C’mon Geoff- stick at it! 😉

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Well I'm all upto speed finally and agree with everyones comments overall, needed to be longer. Didn't like where the took Bobbies character (but not read the books so might be missing a lot) Millers struggle was the highlight as was the introduction of Filip at the end. Amos was just Amos and great as always (needed more to do!) Holden still trying to save the galaxy (Again needs more arc to his character) and as for Alex and Naomi they kinda played as 2nd characters and I prefer the group together.

I also think the extra swearing wasnt needed. I'm no fuckin prude but it gave Chrisjen more oomph when she said it occasionally rather than several times an episode.

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Seems like we’re all broadly on the same page - I’d be fascinated to know Thomas’s opinion of S4!

(Also, just another thought, as much as I hate that Miller finally met his end (as far as I know anyway!), it does always bug me a bit when all the main characters make it out alive, usually by the skin of their teeth in the dying minutes of the film/episode 🙄 - life’s never that neat and tidy so glad in a way that it happened and Thomas was definitely the guy to pull it off!)

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8 hours ago, Geoff said:

I also think the extra swearing wasnt needed. I'm no fuckin prude but it gave Chrisjen more oomph when she said it occasionally rather than several times an episode.

Absolutely true! The extensive use of a word (or whatever other stuff for that matter) lets it lose its power. I admit I prefer a well constructed, strongly non diplomatic sentence, to a swearing.

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6 hours ago, Gail said:

Seems like we’re all broadly on the same page - I’d be fascinated to know Thomas’s opinion of S4!

Oh so true!! Any chance you might pop your head in Tom?

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10 hours ago, Geoff said:

I also think the extra swearing wasnt needed. I'm no fuckin prude but it gave Chrisjen more oomph when she said it occasionally rather than several times an episode.

 

2 hours ago, Enaira said:

Absolutely true! The extensive use of a word (or whatever other stuff for that matter) lets it lose its power. I admit I prefer a well constructed, strongly non diplomatic sentence, to a swearing.

I totally agree with you both. I don’t use what my mother would doubtless call ‘language’ (except in my head where I swear like a trooper on occasion!) although I’ve absolutely no objection to it, and sometimes a well placed/timed curse can add to the overall effect of the dialogue - when it’s every other sentence though it does lose its punch!  Poor Chrisjen went from stateswoman to fishwife in pretty short order!

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