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Optimum Wound?

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I'd start off with Destroy Dystopia which is by one of our German buds Christian. It's in English though. He got some coloring work from IDW (Snaked) based on his online stuff.

He has over 50 pages online and it's a cool little apocalyptic cyberpunk tale.

 

There's not a lot of strong dark genre serialized work out there yet, but now that DC, Marvel, Dark Horse and Top Cow all have online initiatives, the rest of the print world is slowly moving online.

 

Whilel I and my generation prefer to read printed matter, there's a whole generation growing up that's completely comfortable reading off a screen. Joe Quesada realizes this and the rest of the industry is waking up as well.

 

Webcomics have gotten our work in front of thousands of people for pennies a day. I can only imagine how hard (and expensive) that would have been self-publishing singles back in the 1980s and 90s.

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That was quite interesting to read ....Jim I'm wondering if maybe you're confusing Noeland with me ,while you did refer to specific things Noeland said ,i was wondering if those comments about work seeming flat was directed towards me or Noeland . Memento Mori is my graphic novel that was put up on www.webcomicsnation every week for about a year and a half ,with updates happening as often as was possible .Like i said before i know i did do some mistakes but i'm constantly learning and improving as i go and hoping that the way i tell a story becomes more clearer when the pages are in some kind of order that follows the story.I used 3 different styles for that Gn and a lot of things were thrown in just because i tried to keep the story loose and fun .To me the one cardinal sin i can't stand when i read a comic is to be bored .That being said i will go back and buy Mr.Mcloud's book .

I thank you for all of your criticisms and all of your suggestions in storytelling ,pacing ,lighting etc. I do think its unfair to lash out at a fan that voices his opinion and defends what he likes or dislikes , maybe i'm just reading more into your comments than was put up on the board.

What you said about not putting any thought into the pacing, direction, or layout of any of the comic pages shown , i was a bit stunned but i guess if you said that i must have failed in what i was trying to do .The good news is when my next Gn Silent Scream comes out it'll flow a lot better than MM .I do intend on being around for a while and i'm not looking for work from any publishers or to work on their projects, at least not right now .Optimum Wound owns all of their own stuff 100 % and we like it that way .We want to entertain others with stories we want to see but no one's doing or doing it the way we want to see . I've been offered a lot of projects from directors and have had to turn down projects along the way.So i guess i must be doing something right somewhere.

 

Rich

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Frankly, neither of your work stands out as pushing any boundaries in comic storytelling intentionally, so if you really stand behind being an "artist" go big or stay home. Otherwise, tow the line and get your chops up in storytelling and drawing. Anything inbetween looks like an excuse for not learning the basics. Comics, like film, can take your story to broad audience. You can challenge the audience, but you have to give them some ground to stand on. The pages I see from you are not particularly bizarre, but in fact ride along in the same car as a lot of intellectual properties out there. Your audience is the same people who count on reading left-to-right mainstream comics. Unlike say Pop-Bot, Stray Toasters, etc. where the standard storytelling is being manipulated.

 

Also, if all you gleaned from Scott McCloud's book was a distaste for his style of illustration...you missed the point. Scott talks about compostion, pacing, creating the illusion of time passing, and in general shows examples of many excellent tools we have at our disposal to tell stories page-to-page... regardless of the stylistic approach we might employ.

 

I want to make clear that my critiquing any art comic-related is to help others understand the expectation of editors, or working professionally in comics. I have opinions on art, sure. But the following of "rules" you speak of remain fairly consistent with finding paid work.

 

anyway, that's where I am coming from.

lot's of love, not punching or fighting.

--Jim

 

Wow, I thought they were like...well...elves and unicorns...or the boogeyman...but comic snobs are real!?...makes me glad I'm just a janitor...only rule I need to worry about is mopping in a figure 8, keeps life simple. But it does get complicated when I try and read my BERSERK manga from left to right. I always thought that Lee Travino (he's an OLD golfer) had a great come back for anyone giving FREE unasked for advise...look it up, I'm not going to post it here. But it was damned funny and very true.

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Guest AdminGuyX
A big part of me wants to tackle illustrated prose and maybe too much of that seeped into the first part of my comic.

 

And Maybe not. I don't think you have anything to apologize for. I'm a fan of illustrated prose as well. Mignola's new book for instance is fucking fabulous!

 

I had been concentrating too much on technique in my earlier experiments with photorealism. I'll be keeping an eye on Dave Sim's upcoming Glamourpuss as he's probably going to be taking realism in new directions (with hand-lettering to boot).

 

I like Sim. I didn't know he was coming out with a new book. COOL!

 

.Jim I'm wondering if maybe you're confusing Noeland with me

 

I don't think he is Rich. I think he was just commenting on the handful of sketches and things I've posted around here, and maybe the images I have on myspace.

 

Oh hey, I went to check out Destroy Dystopia, and I could only get one page to display. What the heck am I doing wrong over there??

 

Njc-----------------------

 

 

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I like Sim. I didn't know he was coming out with a new book. COOL!

Njc-----------------------

 

Dave Sim will be at the MOTORCITY COMICON this year, May. Neat!

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"Reconsider your words", is what I was just politely asked by Kwiat_skye to do. I agree, and thanks much for the sound judgment. :)

 

So...I'll just remove this whole damned thing.

 

Honestly, Noeland...if you want to continue this discussion we can take it offline. Shoot me an email on myspace if you want, otherwise...seems time to stop the pee pee match in public.

 

--Jim

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Oh hey, I went to check out Destroy Dystopia, and I could only get one page to display. What the heck am I doing wrong over there??

 

Njc-----------------------

 

Sorry about that, all of our webcomics have different functions. If you go to HERE, that'll bring you to the first page. All you have to do now is click on the page itself to bring you to the next one. He has quite a few posted.

 

-Jay

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I think maybe we should revisit all of this later in February on a new thread in the "Show Your Wares" section.

I'd be happy to throw up a new page then and let everyone have at it.

I've got a thick skin. Everyone on these boards are obviously into dark genre art and film so this place presents a unique opportunity to have passionate people offer up insight.

 

I think the written word can read a lot more brutally than in-person contact so I try an read with "soft eyes" (that sounds creepy).

If we were at a bar, we'd all be drinking and laughing together. At least that's what this Canadian would like to believe.

 

I create art for myself first and foremost, but I'd love to hear what people had to say on a new piece. I always try to keep an open mind.

 

Nobody has come on here and slammed my technique, so I don't feel insulted.

I'd like to turn all of this into a positive and stay in contact with ALL of you.

 

Best,

Jay

 

 

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I think maybe we should revisit all of this later in February on a new thread in the "Show Your Wares" section.

 

I think the written word can read a lot more brutally than in-person contact so I try an read with "soft eyes" (that sounds creepy).

If we were at a bar, we'd all be drinking and laughing together. At least that's what this Canadian would like to believe.

 

 

I agree, emails and this stuff reads cold. Far too easy to get carried away, since we are not facing each other. I would happily buy both you guys beers and talk about anything but these forum posts. :)

 

Honestly, with all the work artists have to do to get our work published (And perhaps I mean me, or others not in the self-publishing biz) when someone doing nearly the same thing shares thoughts like Noeland did, it is frustrating. It was very hard work to get in, and hard to work to stay in the business of comics.

 

As I said above, I apologize for the unsolicited crits...but I think we don't all have to massage each others egos here when posting. I happily can accept any crits from any of you. Pretty much thrive on improving my crap. I do enjoy a debate too much maybe (Irish blood), but Noeland saying I am talking down to people, that didn't seem particularly fair as it was not true. So, I responded in turn.

 

Any case... probably better to move off this topic. I hope my contribution to this thread does not put me in a bad light with y'all. I am not some jerk, nor do I think that of any of you.

 

If you guys are in San Diego anytime soon, beverages on me. (preferably not spilled on me, but hey perhaps I earned it) ;)

 

peace,

--Jim

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Guest AdminGuyX

Yes, I missed it. Sounds like it would have been a fun read though. Too bad.

 

B)

 

I don't really know what else to say now, because I feel like I should reply to some other stuff you posted here Jim, but I won't.

 

I'll just consider the issue dropped.

 

No bad blood here guys. No way.

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OK, after thinking about it I do want to add some claification to what I've said in this thread, because what Jim did post here had me thinking yesterday that this is just an honest a goodness misunderstanding. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought I could hopefully make my thoughts less frustrating for Jim.

 

Honestly, with all the work artists have to do to get our work published (And perhaps I mean me, or others not in the self-publishing biz) when someone doing nearly the same thing shares thoughts like Noeland did, it is frustrating. It was very hard work to get in, and hard to work to stay in the business of comics.

 

I am not trying to dismiss decades of established storytelling devices, or somehow dismiss your own work Jim, which I have heaped praise on time and time again. I love your work. I would never do that, and I would never try and minimize the work you put into your career either. Nothing good is easy.

 

And after seeing your artistic process on myspace, I was quite enthralled with your choices and technique. I stated that in the podcast thread at some point.

 

I'm not saying (never was) that work that uses these well established techniques of storytelling (and I'll refrain from calling them rules, I just didn't have another term) sucks, or is somehow evil (again, for lack of a better term) because it's mainstream. It's just not the only way to tell a story in comic format, and I enjoy them all, and there are many.

 

I love all manner of artwork and artistic expression. I'm also a drafting student and a huge fan of technical schematics and architectural design. So, I do love people who tackle scripts and stories as technicians too. How could I not?

 

At the same time I don't want to dismiss the work done in the pages of OW simply because some of it has a more amatuer, unpolished feel. I like unpolished. A lot. I like it despite these things that some people would consider flaws, I consider to be interesting and give the work a certain kind of texture and energy.

 

Self publishing is a lot of work too. It's difficult to maintain, it's expensive, stressful, can be scary, and it is a whole different world than work for hire. It's not easier or harder, it's just different. It comes with it a different set of problems to solve, different mountains to climb. I've done them both over the years.

 

And in supporting self publishers I am not trying to insult the work for hire artists. My boxes of comics range from X-men (days of future past still holds as my favotire X-men storyline) to Cynical Floyd, and everything in between. Bi-Polar is a favorite too.

 

And also, I was told the gyst of what you posted then removed, basically challenging me to quanitify my statements by backing it up with work that shows you what I can do. Even after I expressed to you that I don't feel I have anything to prove to anyone to simply express an opinion, and I wasn't trying to create that kid of situation.

 

I'm just not going to do that, because I was only trying to support work I enjoy, and explain why exactly I like it. It was never a pissing match for me, or anything negative. I'm sorry I made things frustrating for you though. I even said "I don't want you to think I'm lashing out at you" because I never was.

 

As I said above, I apologize for the unsolicited crits...but I think we don't all have to massage each others egos here when posting.

 

I wanted to add this too, because I said it to Jason. I don't think you have anytying to apologize for. And I agree that we don't have to message egos either. If you felt the need to go after me, it happens, I've done it too. It would not, and will not make me enjoy your work any less.

 

Anyway, before this becomes another novella, I hope that you can atleast understand my point of view better now, and hopefully we can agree to disgaree otherwise if not.

 

2008 should be a busy year and I am going to try and make it out to SDCC this year (with a film to show I hope) so maybe we can have a drink or dinner, and chat. I missed the Blade Runner presentation last year and I'm still heartbroken over that one.

 

You know, it might be cool to have a "RAW message boards" party there for members here. I might have to check into that.

 

:)

 

Maybe even Dcon, or some other big shows too.

 

And I did have a question for the Optimum Wound fellows too.

 

What conventions will you guys be attending this year???

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And I did have a question for the Optimum Wound fellows too.

 

What conventions will you guys be attending this year???

 

Conventions are a tricky proposition for us. Not only are we up in Canada, but Rich and I live 3000 miles apart. It's not worth the thousands that it would cost us to do the larger shows unless we had a lot of merch with us.

We're working on sorting out all of these issues but as you can imagine post 9-11, the borders are a bitch.

 

We were hoping to use a merchandiser in Cleveland that could simply drop ship packages to wherever in the States. They are a fullfilment service that ships t-shirts all over the country for touring bands to pick up on the road when they run out.

But they're expanding right now and still haven't got their shit together yet.

For now we're pouring our resources into printing up Danijel's graphic novella, Rex and setting up our online store up here in Vancouver.

 

We will probably still make it to Emerald City Con in Seattle (early May I believe) as it's just below the border and we had an amazing time there last year. We booked a table in artist alley and gave out freebies. And we got to meet and talk to Brian Wood and David Mack. Awesome times.

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Guest AdminGuyX

I've never been out to the west coast. I've got some great friends LA I want to see, and it would be great just to visit Cali and do the tourist thing too I think. I very nearly moved to San Diego out of high school. I was dead set on it. But life has a way of changing your mind, you know?

 

I used to live in michigan, and my friend and I went to the Toronto show one year and we got stopped at the border and they brought us into the garage to make sure we were not smuggling drugs. All they asked us abot our merch was "Are you selling this in Canda?" :)

 

Thanks for the letting me know your plans. I appreciate that. I hope you guys can find your way to a few shows. But yeah I know it's very expensive!

 

I'll keep an eye out for the REX in print.

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