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Mad Max: Fury Road

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Guest FADoss

Actually, I just like good actors regardless of where they come from. Nationalism is for the week. :)

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If ya meant to say "weak", then here's what I gotta say: In 10 years, with every Aussie and Brit remaking all the classic American roles, and also starring in original roles as Americans, where are YOU gonna get work? This ain't about Nationalism. Sure I enjoy these guys too, but we as Americans have traditions in cinema - the same way Brits and Aussies have traditions in their films. The western is an all-american form of art. Because it took place HERE. Yet, the two biggest westerns in the last 3 years were lead by non-Americans (Seraphim Falls, 3:10 to Yuma). I'm an actor myself, but you won't see me go to England and try to get work as a Scottish Yard or S.A.S. operative in a British action film. Now, if you can do that - then more power to ya. But don't tell me Nationalism is for the weak.

-TL (American actor)

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Renee Zellweger pulled it off with the Bridget Jones flicks. But Keanu in Dracula, not so much.

 

It is sort of puzzling to me. Two of my favorite new TV shows this year are Life andMoonlight, both of which have UK folks cast as the main characters (if I remember correctly.) That didn't bother me so much as a Brit being the new Bionic Woman.

 

Doesn't this have something to do with productions having to hire a certain percentage of people from outside the US in order for the production to be shown abroad??? Seems I read that somewhere a while ago.

 

Anywho, there is no role more Aussie than Mad Max. I'm guessing that if they chose anyone other than an Aussie for the role, there would be a major revolt down under.

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Guest AdminGuyX

In all fairness, the US film industry is a massive powerhouse of steady work for actors from all over the world. We produce far more TV shows, films, short films, plays, TV commercials, corporate videos, and online entertainment content (I don't mean porn either), than any other nation. It's like 100 to 1, if not higher.

 

Doesn't this have something to do with productions having to hire a certain percentage of people from outside the US in order for the production to be shown abroad??? Seems I read that somewhere a while ago.

 

Can't say I've ever heard that before. Are we talking actors, crew, what? Just can't see that being true, but it's a pretty vague statement.

 

Other countries, including the UK, don't have the same kind of infrastructure, systems for getting films made, or the pure "work" available that we do here, mostly in LA LA land at that. Nobody touches hollywood in tersm of the number of active productions happening at any given time, and I mean to say, they produce films not only here, but all over the world, and always hire some percentage locally. Maybe that's what you're thinking KS. (?)

 

I don't have any problem with actors from other countries being in westerns and "american" films as long as they are good at what they do, and the film is good and works. Like I said, I enjoyed 3:10 to Yuma. I thought Crowe was awesome in The Quick and The Dead too. Didn't see Seraphim Falls, but will eventually.

 

And hey, we had a ton of immigrants back then, this country was all about immigration, expansion, and for a while, free land. Being an "american" to me, is simply a state of mind, and not a birth right of any kind.

 

And Mel Gibson is a dual citizen, he was born in the states guys, and never gave up his US citizenship.

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And hey, we had a ton of immigrants back then, this country was all about immigration, expansion, and for a while, free land. Being an "american" to me, is simply a state of mind, and not a birth right of any kind.

 

And Mel Gibson is a dual citizen, he was born in the states guys, and never gave up his US citizenship.

 

Mea culpa on Mel. My old brain forgot about that. He still just seems to ooze Aussie, but that's just me.

 

As far as the immigrant thing goes, quite true. One example: I read in The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester that many Irishmen came to fight during the Civil War. (Also know as the War of Northern Aggression, depending on what part of the South you're in.) If they survived, they had learned tactics to use back home against the British. Isn't war grand.

 

Unfortunately, I have no reference for the hiring practices of production companies. Neurons are popping as I type trying to remember when and where I read that. Oh well. You're right - everything is so multinational, it probably doesn't apply anyway. So just forget I said that. :huh:

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Noeland I'm with ya on "Bring us your poor, your hungry..." This is fuckin America and yes we are the land of immigration. The reason I challenged Doss' statement, was that he refused to acknoledge the current status on role distribution to Americans and British actors. Noeland you must see how many British actors are taking American-written roles these days. You're not an actor (right?) but you can still care about this development. I understand that Brits and Aussies do a good job playing Americans - I LOVE Russell Crowe in American Gangster, but what's gonna happen to all of us non-Royal-Theatre trained/one-accented individuals??? Mr. Fantastic is Welsh. Bruce Wayne is Australian. Now Snake is Australian too??? I love many Brits in their respective environments/native tongues: anything with Vinnie Jones, Jason Statham in Snatch, Michael Caine is a bad-ass. This generation needs more Chicago/Boston/LA/Detroit born leading men. At least we got TJ from Baltimore.

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss
Noeland I'm with ya on "Bring us your poor, your hungry..." This is fuckin America and yes we are the land of immigration. The reason I challenged Doss' statement, was that he refused to acknoledge the current status on role distribution to Americans and British actors. Noeland you must see how many British actors are taking American-written roles these days. You're not an actor (right?) but you can still care about this development. I understand that Brits and Aussies do a good job playing Americans - I LOVE Russell Crowe in American Gangster, but what's gonna happen to all of us non-Royal-Theatre trained/one-accented individuals??? Mr. Fantastic is Welsh. Bruce Wayne is Australian. Now Snake is Australian too??? I love many Brits in their respective environments/native tongues: anything with Vinnie Jones, Jason Statham in Snatch, Michael Caine is a bad-ass. This generation needs more Chicago/Boston/LA/Detroit born leading men. At least we got TJ from Baltimore.

 

-TL

 

Ummm...there aren't enough American actors? Are you serious? Really? So...Is Hugh Jackman Canadian? Halle Berry from Africa? What about Brad Pitt...is he really a Pikey (sp)? A LOT of American actors have been doing the British movie thing (Ed Norton...HELL Tom Jane isn't South African and neither is Leo DiCaprio that I know of). It's called acting bro.

 

The part goes to the best actor...or the most marketable actor. What I refuse to see is any real relevance of nationality on acting. And I plan getting roles based on talent...not because I was born in America.

 

And one accent? Again, see list above...very incomplete of American actors filling roles...and then listen to me do Irish, Cockney, British, German, Russian, Yiddish...etc. etc.

 

OH, and check out Viggo Mortensen in "Altriste"...filmed entirely in Spanish with subtitles...Or how about Anotio Banderas playing a Persian in "13th Warrior". Not to mention that most of the great Clint Eastwood movies were called Spaghetti Westerns for a reason....

 

I can keep going all day.

 

Frederic

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Guest AdminGuyX

I've done some acting, yeah, but I don't consider myself an actor. I'm a filmmaker, and I've worked with actors from all over the world. Here in Atlanta I worked with a fellow from Africa who could do the best new york/bronx accent you ever heard.

 

So, where does that stop? Regionally? Should someone from Florida not play someone from New York? You follow my logic?

 

I study the industry, like anything, you have to educate yourself. I don't see any kind of disturbing trend in american actors going without work, or the studios making a conscious choice not to hire US actors. Like FAD said the role goes to the best actor, not the best actor who lives in the same time zone as the production.

 

Though Crowe and Bale do have homes in Cali, does that count?

 

George Miller, at one point, was looking at Heath Ledger to play Mel's son, as he did in The Patriot. Heath is from Perth, an Aussie. Batman is all kinds of friggin' multi-national. I think it only adds flavor to the stew.

 

I could rattle off a handful of films with americans as brits (or Stander, good example, that had actors from all over the world playing south africans) aussies, whatever.

 

Hugh Jackman is Australian, by the way. He plays Wolverine, a Canuck, just fine.

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Here we go. I am not debating on Floridians playing New Yorkers (that's ridiculous), on Spaniards playing Persians, on Australians playing Canadians, on Eastwood makin westerns out in Europe. No. I believe the AMERICAN western, is a genre that WE as a nation established. Perhaps, I am a more dedicated follower to this genre than both of yous. An American western (there was no wild west in Great Britain) should be lead by American actors. Do I have to break this down more? I don't care if currently British and Australian actors are more bankable and marketable - it has NOTHING to do with the American western. Has an American actor ever played 007? There are certain types of films that have a bond with their respective nations. Escape from NEW YORK. Escape from LA. Once upon a time in the WEST (America). Ya see where I'm going with this? Don't throw these other examples at me (Stander). We are talking about America's iconic cinematic figures. NO AMERICAN SHOULD PLAY MAD MAX. I don't care if Mel's birth certificate says he's an American. Mel became Mel in Melbourne. He's an Australian bad-ass. NO AUSTRALIAN OR BRIT SHOULD PLAY SNAKE. Noeland, you don't see the trend, because it clearly doesn't affect you. What would Clint say? Let's not forget the message behind Gene Hackman's character in Unforgiven. To further back me up, is Robert Duvall - which also believes the Western is ours, and only ours. It's sad to see that Broken Trail didn't even make it to theatres and 3:10 to Yuma did. Apparently like many problems that we have in America today, nobody cares about the western anymore. Our western. Tradition is so easy to kill here. If the idea of an American actor leading a western didn't matter, what was Leone doing casting Eastwood? Bronson? Fonda? Robards? Wallach? Van Cleef? ALL AMERICANS. That's right. Just because this is 2007, I don't have to stop giving a shit. Its NOT about who's the best actor. How do you know the casting director and the producers aren't making their selection based on where the guys are from? Doss, head over to London and audition for a role as Tony Blair. Don't be surprised if Ewan McGregor is at the audition and tells you "this is bollocks."

 

-TL (BORN AND RAISED IN CHICAGO, ILLINOIS. CURRENTLY RECIDE IN MIAMI, FLORIDA. AMERICAN ACTOR AND FOLLOWER OF THE AMERICAN WESTERN)

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Guest FADoss

And oddly enough...Once Upon a Time in the West was MADE by an ITALIAN.

 

Pretty much, your argument is nationalistic and holds no water. I mean, I respect your opinion...but...there no real rhyme or reason to it...

 

And how are the other comparisons made by others lacking in relevance. Could you tell that Russell Crowe wasn't American...in "The Quick and the Dead" or even "3:10"? I sure as hell couldn't.

 

And last I checked Australia was a bit wilder than anyplace in the current American west. Those boys probably have a bit more to draw on than us.

 

ALSO, isn't Mad Max an AUSTRALIAN FILM??? Just curious?

 

Oh...and did you see Crowe play a brit in "The Good Life"? He's really one of the best actors out there. As is Butler.

 

And you don't get much more bad ass than Ray in "King Arthur". He was fabulous.

 

Frederic

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I can see your point TL, but the sad fact is, things HAVE changed. Globalization and all that rot. And really, I'm just guessing here, but I think the majority of folks paying to see a movie in a theater don't give a rip where the actors' Moms happened to be when they birthed 'em. They go because they heard the story is good, or the leading lady is hot, or the leading man is hot, or they like the director, or it has lots of car chases, or whatever. National origin is not on their radar unless the actor is so bad they can't do the right accent - no matter where they're from. A yankee can do a lousy southern accent and vice versa.

 

All that being said, I still think Mad Max should have Aussie roots of some depth - even if shallow. But that's just me.

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Kwiat Skye, YOU are truly a Mad Max fan. Doss, you're not listening (reading). Russell Crowe is a great actor. He's so great, he can ACT American. But he isn't. And I have a problem with him and fellow Aussie Christian Bale starring in an AMERICAN western. You obviously don't care, fine by me. This argument holds more than water, it holds the highest value: Respect for our Nation. I did not expect this from you, because you identified yourself as U.S.A.F. Then again, I don't share many points of view that today's Americans do. I suggest you re-read my previous post, for all the points you've made in yours - are of no relevance or in response to mine. You obviously are more a fan of action films and pop-culture cinema (which is okay), not of American westerns. 3:10 to Yuma IS NOT an American Western.

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss
Kwiat Skye, YOU are truly a Mad Max fan. Doss, you're not listening (reading). Russell Crowe is a great actor. He's so great, he can ACT American. But he isn't. And I have a problem with him and fellow Aussie Christian Bale starring in an AMERICAN western. You obviously don't care, fine by me. This argument holds more than water, it holds the highest value: Respect for our Nation. I did not expect this from you, because you identified yourself as U.S.A.F. Then again, I don't share many points of view that today's Americans do. I suggest you re-read my previous post, for all the points you've made in yours - are of no relevance or in response to mine. You obviously are more a fan of action films and pop-culture cinema (which is okay), not of American westerns. 3:10 to Yuma IS NOT an American Western.

 

-TL

 

Dude...you really need to slow your roll. I'm listening just fine. You think that foreign actor's shouldn't be allowed to take roles that are decidedly "American"...whatever the hell that means.

 

As far as respect for my nation...I've spent my time in Afghanistan and in service to our country and I really hope you aren't questioning my patriotism. I'm just not so xenophobic that I see a british actor playing a cowboy as a threat to national security and the American way of life.

 

As far as the American Western...well...Fist Full of Dollars isn't one...nor is Once Upon a Time in the West. Last I check, both were directed by Sergio Leone...Clint Eastwood (et all) were criticised for accepting roles in these classics for much the same nationalistic argument you are making.

 

As for a lack of relevance...I think I read your posts just fine. And I believe my counterpoints such as the film "The Great Escape" where almost all the foreign military allies were played by AMERICAN actors are very relevant.

 

Again, you really need to DEFINE the "American Western" to me. I would argue that everything since about 1959 has been tainted by Italian influence.

 

I mean...the ball is in your court.

 

Frederic

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Kwiat Skye, YOU are truly a Mad Max fan. Doss, you're not listening (reading). Russell Crowe is a great actor. He's so great, he can ACT American. But he isn't. And I have a problem with him and fellow Aussie Christian Bale starring in an AMERICAN western. You obviously don't care, fine by me. This argument holds more than water, it holds the highest value: Respect for our Nation. I did not expect this from you, because you identified yourself as U.S.A.F. Then again, I don't share many points of view that today's Americans do. I suggest you re-read my previous post, for all the points you've made in yours - are of no relevance or in response to mine. You obviously are more a fan of action films and pop-culture cinema (which is okay), not of American westerns. 3:10 to Yuma IS NOT an American Western.

 

-TL

 

Christian Bale was born in Wales, he's not an Aussie.

James Mangold, born in New York,

Halstead Welles, wrote the original 1957 script for 3:10, I don't know where he was born but he's been around awhile.

As far as I know the other 2 screen writers are born in the USA...and at the end of the day none of that matters. 3;10 wasn't a great movie in 1957, it is watchable in 2007 only because of Russel Crowe.

 

Frederic, I would like to personally thank you for serving your country and protecting my family. A thread about Mad Max should never have even remotely come close to questioning your patriotism.

 

Somebody's white sheet is beginning to show.

 

How about we get this back on topic?

 

I still say I'd love to see somebody else as max, it was never Mel Gibson who made those movies for me anyway.

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Guest AdminGuyX
This argument holds more than water, it holds the highest value: Respect for our Nation.

 

What are you even thinking? Seriously, you REALLY feel that way? Because I've seen all manner of baiting on message boards, but that's pretty sickening TL.

 

You're really truly questioning the patriotism of members here, someone who served in Afghanistan no less, all over a genre of movie, because we don't agree with your opinion? That's pretty rich.

 

Entertainment at 24 frames a second, that's all we're chatting about. You didn't even need to go there TL. Honestly.

 

FADoss, you don't ever have to explain yourself to TL.

 

Nobody does.

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Alright Doss, that last post shows me you see what I'm talkin about - even though you disagree with it. Now, do I think the Leone films are American westerns? Yes I do. Not a thing to do with where they were shot - the protagonist was an American. Same with Once Upon a Time in the West. Hence American Westerns. There's no need for you to tell me you've been to Afghanistan, I wasn't questioning jack shit besides your enthusiasm for the American Western. And Irish, "white sheet"??? What makes you think I don't know about serving one's country? I don't need to say a fuckin thing about my Military background. If you MUST know ask away, but all you're getting is my rank and what battalion I was with. This discussion was about one thing, and you're writing these nonsensical comments that got nothin to do with the subject at hand. "Christian Bale was born in Wales." Bro what are you talking about? Are you correcting me or just contributing information that don't matter? I was arguing against Welsh-men doing American westerns anyway. Freddy's a big boy and was an Officer, he doesn't need your support for an argument against me. Hell, in the service they woulda given me shit for contradicting him (Officers have power over NCOs). And if you think Mel Gibson wasn't what made Mad Max, then I won't even bother to get started with ya - it will lead nowhere.

 

American Western: Dominant genre of American cinema for 30 years that starred American-born actors as men living the classic days of gunfighting that continued up to the late 1800s.

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Noeland, the above text referring to patriotism can be directed to you too. Don't assume what you have no knoledge of - which is me. And like the others, you don't give a shit about the American western. If That's how you feel, then that's how you feel. You're only a spectator, not a follower. I know EXACTLY what I was thinking when I wrote it. And like Irish, let FD fight his own fight.

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss

Tommy Tom Tom, I have considered your posts witty and well-informed up until this point. Now I see you are an immature child who requires a decent spanking.

 

FIRST, the following quote DIRECTLY questions my patriotism and brings up my military service:

 

"This argument holds more than water, it holds the highest value: Respect for our Nation. I did not expect this from you, because you identified yourself as U.S.A.F."

 

I really couldn't care less about your military background as I never questioned your love for our nation over a damned movie.

 

SECOND, a movie can be made in a foreign country by a foreign director, but as long as it has American actors its a Western. This is the most convoluted definition I have EVER heard for a western and probably only shared by you and well...no one. Also, does American mean US only? I think there might have been some Mexicans in those movies!!! Heaven forbid. No wait, Jack Palance did some of those Mexican roles as well (The Professionals).

 

Also, PLEASE don't be a hypocrite and call yourself IRISH with all your talk of the superiority of red-blooded Americans. It's stupid and could disqualify you from ever being in a REAL western.

 

I would suggest that you refrain from making a further ass of yourself on these boards and grow up a bit. I also suggest that coming to a battle of wits half prepared is never a good idea.

 

Frederic

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I'm not Irish you Air Force pansie. I was talkin to Irish46. And the only immaturity I'm seeing here, is your ongoing will to make this discussion over Patriotism when it's over a completely different subject. I judged you as a soldier not a pussy with silver bars on his shoulders. What makes you think you got what it takes to give me a spanking? lol And I never gave you permission to address me by my Christian name. I reserve that to people with more integrity. There I was thinkin you were gonna give me a good reply on this discussion (after I told ya your military background had dick to do with the discussion) but instead you give me this cheap "try" over a thread. I'm here to discuss topics, NOT TO CRY OVER DIFFERENCES OF OPINION. You wanna feel offended 'cause I brought up your background? Go ahead. Let me say this though, common courtesy is dismantled from here on out. If everybody else wants to blow you cause you flashed your BDUs, so be it. I still have 8 pairs. This isn't a battle. You need 2 opponents for that. I just see me. Sound familiar???

 

-TL

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Guest FADoss

I see you also dress up like Wolverine...

 

Ain't that cute. Almost as cute as picking a fight with someone over the internet. I mean really, does your mom know you're on the computer this late?

 

First of all, you have no idea what the word integrity means judging by the way you used it. SECOND, Calling me Freddy and Doss first allows me to call you whatever I want to call you. Are you really this STUPID? I'm hoping your account has been hacked by a prepubescent relative.

 

This is just ridiculous. As for the pussy thing...people say a lot of stupid stuff they'd never have the guts to say in person while hiding behind the keyboard. I just hope you wouldn't stab me with your little claws if we ever met in person. So dangerous...

 

And telling me the military background didn't matter when everyone can read your damn post is just retarded. Did YOU read what you posted?

 

I really hate it when I get pissed enough to even respond to idiots such as yourself.

 

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That's it??? That's all you got??? LMAO Alright. Well, the internet comment did crack me up though. I'll give ya that. And just so you know, the only thing my mom knows, is that I have a pair (of balls - something you are currently lacking). This "thread-fighting" IS really unfulfilling. So, since ya had nothin creative to throw at me, I'm gonna go watch an AMERICAN western. Don't bother to write back, I can be very mean. Wouldn't want you to cry. If you do challenge me again at whatever topic, please refrain from fucking with me, I'm EASY to piss off. I love a good argument and a fierce debate, but if you're too fuckin sensitive then just exit the thread. Good night FD.

 

-TL

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That's it??? That's all you got??? LMAO Alright. Well, the internet comment did crack me up though. I'll give ya that. And just so you know, the only thing my mom knows, is that I have a pair (of balls - something you are currently lacking). This "thread-fighting" IS really unfulfilling. So, since ya had nothin creative to throw at me, I'm gonna go watch an AMERICAN western. Don't bother to write back, I can be very mean. Wouldn't want you to cry. If you do challenge me again at whatever topic, please refrain from fucking with me, I'm EASY to piss off. I love a good argument and a fierce debate, but if you're too fuckin sensitive then just exit the thread. Good night FD.

 

-TL

 

Wait...did you just say that the only thing your mom knows about is your balls? Care to rephrase? How can you call me a coward? At least I'm not a 23 year old who spends his life dressing up like a CANADIAN comic book hero. I mean seriously, I'm all about comics, movies and even action figures...but you're pushing it a bit far bro.

 

As for your military service. Separated by 23...and with your hair looking the way it does back in May of 06, I'd say you've been out for awhile. Doesn't give you time enough to have served a full four. Were you booted for insubordination, failure to adapt or something more personal?

 

Just curious...

 

Frederic

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Guys -

We need to agree to disagree here and leave it at that.

Pursuing this further is a waste of time, literally, since I will be deleting all elements of the argument.

We appreciate a good debate but it's gone a bit too far, and too personal.

 

Let's rise above it. Time to drop it.

Play nice or don't play.

 

Comments will be removed in the next 24

 

Back to Mad Max

 

Bless you all ;)

 

- TB

 

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Guest FADoss

Apologize to everyone for letting it get the better of me and derailing the thread.

 

Frederic

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Well, um, damn. Anyway. I just don't think Mad Max should be made again. I don't think Lethal Weapon should either. I love Mel Gibson, the guy is a God, and I'm talking about his acting, what he does on his own time whether it be drinkin', gamblin', etc, is none of my business. No one can replace him, and as much as I hate to say it, he is a dying breed. He's getting old, him, Kurt Russell, Clint, Bruce, all of 'em, and it really pains me to see that because I'd like them to be young forever and make movies. Ya know? But anyway, I think if another Mad Max is made it'll be trashed and put to rest and quite possibly be a disgrace to Mel Gibson, the franchise, and so that's just my opinion.

 

Also, not to get off topic, but Gerard Butler finally dropped out of the Escape from NY remake, thank God and it looks like it won't be made now. Sorry but to me that's good news.

 

JO

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