Jump to content
irish46

WESTERN MOVIES

Recommended Posts

The Italian westerns were once upon a time thought of as trash too. It's just a matter of taste.

 

 

"American writings specific to Spaghetti Western films are somewhat nonchalant and dismissive of the genre. This is primarily because American critics do not factor the context in which these films were produced. Frayling observes that American critics view the genre as blasphemy towards American cultural values. As a result American film critics remove objectivity from the equation often resulting in slanderous commentary. According to Frayling “studies of the American Western have tended to neglect Italian Westerns – and, on occasion, have even included actively misleading statements about them”. (Frayling and Cinecittà 1998) Academic writings of recent times (while still equally sparse) are relaxing their biased stance and in some cases have retrospectively retracted such fallacies. Frayling points out that “[Phillip] French now considers that the things he said about Spaghettis in the 1973 edition of his book were ‘patronising and unduly dismissive’”. (Frayling and Cinecittà 1998) As Frayling surmises this shift has come through the acknowledgement of influences the Spaghetti Western film genre has made on modern cinema and filmmakers.

 

European critics such as Umberto Eco have written positive criticism about the Spaghetti Western film genre. However they tend to focus on the work of the director (such as Sergio Leone ) at the expense of the creative contribution played by the writers. Eco tends to argue the premise of auteur; that is the director as sole author. (Frayling 2000) Eco’s perspective also lacks objectivity because it fails to acknowledge the premise of story development and the role of the screenwriter in the filmmaking process. Frayling describes the influence of Sergio Leone’s ego usurping the work of others; “For his Western writers, it was ironic that Sergio [Leone] should want to be a ‘creative producer’, treating directors as vessels for his vision, because in their view that was what he really was: an able technician, brilliant on the set, but not the ‘author’ he later claimed to be. The ego of the auteur was a tendency he downgraded in others, but treasured in himself.” (Frayling 2000). Frayling comments throughout his writings on director Sergio Leone of Leone’s aspirations to be recognised as a cultural icon – often at the expense of his fellow contributors such as screenwriter Sergio Donati or actor Clint Eastwood. Leone therefore embraced the warmth and accolades of the European film critics who saw him as he wished to see himself."

 

From my Masters

http://nla.gov.au/anbd.bib-an000040315161

 

In addition there is no denying there are trashy Spaghetti Western. As always cream rises to the top - in particular the works of Leone. I do pray that your 'once upon a time' comment was not meant to infer that Once Upon a Time in the West was ever thought of as trashy. It had issues in theatrical release due to cut to trim down run time but was never reviewed as trashy.

 

There are films within the genre that cover all manner of sub-genres so they cannot and should not all be clumped together.

 

They key difference that I see in the way cinema has evolved or de-evolved as the case may be is that the focus used to be on character - now the directorial focus is on being cool. Like Tarantino whispering in an actors ear on set - you're cool, you're the cat's pjyamas - oh please.

 

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest AdminGuyX
In addition there is no denying there are trashy Spaghetti Western. As always cream rises to the top - in particular the works of Leone. I do pray that your 'once upon a time' comment was not meant to infer that Once Upon a Time in the West was ever thought of as trashy. It had issues in theatrical release due to cut to trim down run time but was never reviewed as trashy.

 

No, I was not inferring anything.

 

I was also not thinking about academics, or critics. Spagetti western was an insult before it was an adjective.

 

That's all I meant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If anybody is wondering what flick these guys are chatting about, here is a trailer page for it.

 

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/...iwesterndjango/

 

Looks to be shot well, though the presence of Tarantino and the wacky guy with the hip slung gatling gun is offputting.

 

It's a Takashi Miike movie, so it's gonna divide people. Miike can shoot the fuck out of a movie, it's just a lot of his films tend to be a tab obtuse, if that's the right erm to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, I was not inferring anything.

 

I was also not thinking about academics, or critics. Spagetti western was an insult before it was an adjective.

 

That's all I meant.

 

Oh yeah it was initated as slander, because the Americans felt it was insult to their mythos. They didn't like the cynical nature in which it all played out. Leone's film though did empower Peckinpah with a lot more creative freedom to push boundaries but prior to that the Western was too precious.

 

Fair statement.

 

regards

 

Andrew

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a Takashi Miike movie, so it's gonna divide people. Miike can shoot the fuck out of a movie, it's just a lot of his films tend to be a tab obtuse, if that's the right erm to use.

 

Obtuse. Hmm in parts it felt like a Zucker brothers production. I'm just sick to the stomach of modern day directors thinking that it is all about looking cool. Give me CHARACTER, CHARACTER, CHARACTER - is that too much to ask?

 

regards

 

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest AdminGuyX
It's a Takashi Miike movie, so it's gonna divide people. Miike can shoot the fuck out of a movie, it's just a lot of his films tend to be a tab obtuse, if that's the right erm to use.

 

from dictionary.com:

 

ob⋅tuse   /əbˈtus, -ˈtyus/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uhb-toos, -tyoos] Show IPA Pronunciation

 

–adjective 1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.

2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.

3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.

4. indistinctly felt or perceived, as pain or sound.

 

Miike and lots of asian filmmakers, and obviously their audience, really seem to dig that little bit of cartoon, or that little bit of crazy whacky slapstick comedy in thier flicks. Not always, but like Versus, this looks like it has some very odd comedic beats in the movie.

 

Whatchagonnado?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miike tends to go for more the mind fuck actually. Or just nuts, like the Dead or Alive films (not the shitty video game movie, just to be clear).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miike and lots of asian filmmakers, and obviously their audience, really seem to dig that little bit of cartoon, or that little bit of crazy whacky slapstick comedy in thier flicks. Not always, but like Versus, this looks like it has some very odd comedic beats in the movie.

 

Whatchagonnado?

 

I know that a lot of Miike's films are adapted from manga books. That said, reading manga books in Japan is fairly common for folks of all ages, so it wouldn't surprise me if Asian film makers are influenced by this. Not all, but I can deffinatly see the influence on some.

 

 

That being said, has anyone seen The Man Who Came Back? I saw it the other day, but have been to busy to check anything out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3:10 Yuma

 

I loved bale's and crowe's performance.

What i didn't liked was that bale was killed so easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked 3:10 To Yuma, but the end really pulled me out.

Crowe's character learns a lesson about his ways, but totally destroys it by calling his horse.

 

I thought Ben Foster was great. Viscious little bastard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...